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Marvin Williams Underated and maybe even hated By JF

Weezur said:
Marvin has to share his +/- with Jefferson and Sap while DeMarre shares it with Favors and Hayward against opponent benches. You could put anyone out there and they'd have the same +/- as Demarre if Favors and Hayward are there with them.
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Way more complicated than this of course. Favors doesn't even have a positive +/- for the year; he's at -23, and his 48 net is -1.3. Hayward plays lots of his minutes with the starters (he's 5th and 6th respectively with one of the worst win% of any player on our team). Kanter, on the other hand, is 3rd best on our team in both of these areas and has the 2nd best win% (60%).
 
JJAS said:
Way more complicated than this of course. Favors doesn't even have a positive +/- for the year; he's at -23, and his 48 net is -1.3. Hayward plays lots of his minutes with the starters (he's 5th and 6th respectively with one of the worst win% of any player on our team). Kanter, on the other hand, is 3rd best on our team in both of these areas and has the 2nd best win% (60%).
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My point is that +/- is a stat that needs to be weighted against the opponent strength and the minutes they play against a given opponent.
IE: If Marvin and Foye play exclusively against Lebron and Wade while DeMarre and Hayward plays exclusively against Battier and Allen, who's going to have the better +/-?

Not saying that this is a real world case, but I think it shows the weakness of the +/- stat.
 
Weezur said:
My point is that +/- is a stat that needs to be weighted against the opponent strength and the minutes they play against a given opponent.
IE: If Marvin and Foye play exclusively against Lebron and Wade while DeMarre and Hayward plays exclusively against Battier and Allen, who's going to have the better +/-?

Not saying that this is a real world case, but I think it shows the weakness of the +/- stat.
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I've been waiting for basketballvalue to update the adjusted +/- but think the guy got hired by an NBA team. Millsap led the Jazz the last two years in this category with flying colors.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
He had the opportunity to claim a spot in the offense, he chose not to through passiveness. The story of his career.

I would be for moving him to the bench and starting Carroll though to see if that would somehow spark him.
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wouldnt that be considered chucking and being a black hole?

i remember the days when basketball was a teamgame
 
franklin said:
If you watched nobody but Marvin on defense I think you walk away impressed. It's hard to notice just how good he is because he doesn't do anything dramatic.
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agreed he doe snothing spectecular on defense and makes no mistakes.
but none the less he PLAYS superb defense.

i started noticing when i was trying to not look at jefferson on defense.
 
Weezur said:
My point is that +/- is a stat that needs to be weighted against the opponent strength and the minutes they play against a given opponent.
IE: If Marvin and Foye play exclusively against Lebron and Wade while DeMarre and Hayward plays exclusively against Battier and Allen, who's going to have the better +/-?

Not saying that this is a real world case, but I think it shows the weakness of the +/- stat.
Click to expand...
That's why JJAS gave 7 other stats to compare. I think we all understand that it has to be taken in context.
Zman has it right, Marvin has the tools, Demarre has the motor.
 
On second thought i forgot to look at his contract.
Geez 9 million for him is steep.
his contract makes him a "bad" player.
but still try playing 5th fiddle in a alfensive system and you tend to dissapear
 
DutchJazzer said:
On second thought i forgot to look at his contract.
Geez 9 million for him is steep.
his contract makes him a "bad" player.
but still try playing 5th fiddle in a alfensive system and you tend to dissapear
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His contract doesn't make him a bad player. He's a decent player with a bad contract.
 
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