Name a player that wouldve won Stockton & Malone rings.

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

@MeloTheJazzKiller why is H20 so criminally underrated and hated on by hoop fans?

Houston will always be remembered in NY for that one play that beat the Heat in the playoffs. Unfortunately, Houston became part of Knicks management (assistant GM or something) and we kind of don't think much of those guys here in NY.

And for what it's worth, I never compared the two directly, but as they were playing, I always thought Hornacek was a better guy to have on a team than Houston.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Houston will always be remembered in NY for that one play that beat the Heat in the playoffs. Unfortunately, Houston became part of Knicks management (assistant GM or something) and we kind of don't think much of those guys here in NY.

And for what it's worth, I never compared the two directly, but as they were playing, I always thought Hornacek was a better guy to have on a team than Houston.

Both in their prime it’s Jeff Hornacek no doubt but the time period we are talking about, Jeff was pretty much running on fumes and two shot knees and Houston was in his prime.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

Both in their prime it’s Jeff Hornacek no doubt but the time period we are talking about, Jeff was pretty much running on fumes and two shot knees and Houston was in his prime.

You are correct, Hornacek in prime over Houston in his prime.

We know you can't judge athletes at the time their careers intersected. Friggin' Trevor Berbick beat the Holy Hell out of Muhammad Ali. That ain't happening with those guys both in their prime years.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Houston will always be remembered in NY for that one play that beat the Heat in the playoffs. Unfortunately, Houston became part of Knicks management (assistant GM or something) and we kind of don't think much of those guys here in NY.

And for what it's worth, I never compared the two directly, but as they were playing, I always thought Hornacek was a better guy to have on a team than Houston.

He runs the Westchester Knicks, their G-League affiliate. Lol.

I'm not saying Hornacek was a bad player. He was a great addition to our squad, no doubt. Had a great stroke from 3. I'm convinced a lot of people never watched Houston play by how underrated he is. The guy could do superstar ****. **** Hornacek could never do. I NEVER seen Hornacek triple threat an opponent, face up and splash a 3 or a mid range in their face. I never seen Hornacek triple threat, fake his defender out and blow by him and convert an and 1.

Allan Houston is criminally underrated.

Maybe Houston is underrated because of the Van Gundy system that didn't have him as the primary scoring option. Maybe Houston didn't want to be the face of a franchise the first 3-4 years he was a Knick and enjoyed the role of stepping up when his team needed him. (Still a 2x All Star during that span)

He showed he could stuff the stat sheet, in his 30's at that in 02-04 before his knee injuries when he lit the Lakers up for 53, then the Bucks for 50 a month later. Almost 23 ppg.

I just can't see how people think Hornacek, who couldn't create his shot anywhere close to Houston, or finish at the basket as well is better than Houston. It's actually quite baffling, and shows a bias that JazzFanz have for their alma mater. Houston's 99 playoff run where he eliminated Miami, and then took over and eliminated the Pacers with 30 points shows what the man was capable of. Hornacek never stepped up and took over in the playoffs when the Jazz needed to.

You give Stockton and Malone Allan Houston, in his prime you're sitting on 2, maybe 3 rings.

You also don't get blown out by 40 by Chicago in the Finals.



Houston is starting at SF (he's naturally a shooting guard) guarding a man who traditionally plays Center at the start of the game (Adam Keefe).

Jeff Hornacek almost inexistent through 2 quarters.

Houston? Anytime he gets usage he makes making something special happen.

Look at the talent on this Jazz squad. Very, very mediocre outside of Stock and Malone, yet 2nd place in the West. How Stockton and Malone got the most out of a team with a old Hornacek and scrubs shows how legendary they were. All you needed was a guy like Houston who could put the ball on the floor, create shots, finish at the basket, erupt for 30+ on any given night and the Jazz wouldve had championship banners in the rafters.

Especially if you had Hornacek coming off the bench as a 6th man behind Houston.

But yeah, 2x All Star Allan Houston > 1x All Star Jeff Hornacek is the hill I'll die on.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Both in their prime it’s Jeff Hornacek no doubt but the time period we are talking about, Jeff was pretty much running on fumes and two shot knees and Houston was in his prime.

Why is there no doubt bro? What did Jeff Hornacek do better than Allan Houston? Their styles of play were completely different if we're being honest. I just can't see Hornacek being capable of doing the things Houston could do. Maybe Jeff was a better transitional player, but I never seen Hornacek dominate the way Houston did numerous times.

 

[trentban22]

I love Starks, wish we had him a bit earlier in his prime

 

[infection]

I love Starks, wish we had him a bit earlier in his prime

I was excited when we signed him, thinking we were getting NYK Starks. I was… underwhelmed.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Why is there no doubt bro? What did Jeff Hornacek do better than Allan Houston? Their styles of play were completely different if we're being honest. I just can't see Hornacek being capable of doing the things Houston could do. Maybe Jeff was a better transitional player, but I never seen Hornacek dominate the way Houston did numerous times.

Better shooter, better overall game IMO

 

[LogGrad98]

Better shooter, better overall game IMO

Here is a comparison of both of their first all star years. Hornacek only had this one, but mainly because he ended up playing in Utah where he was meant to be the 3rd option, and not many of those get all-star nods.



So in their prime, Hornacek all day every day. Beats him in literally every single category. Houston did have a couple of seasons better than this, but they weren't all star seasons.

Even in Houston's statistically best season compared to Horny's all star season the differences are noticeable.



More points and marginally better free throw shooter. Hornacek overall far more efficient and lit up more of the stat sheet with 5 ast and 5 boards per game to Houston at 3 of each. In steals especially, Horny at 2, Houston at not even 1. Defensively Hornacek was a sneaky good defender, and I would argue better than Houston, as Allan was primarily a scorer.

So if we could have ADDED Houston in 97 or 98 that would have been huge. But at that time, Hornacek was still more efficient, which was really valuable given the style of play we had at the time. Even comparing their 96-97 seasons they aren't that far off.



Horny still has the edge in shooting overall, and assists and steals, while points are identical. That would have helped us to have Houston that year, but we would have lost something on the defensive end, which was our core identity at the time.

And in 98?



This is really where Hornacek was falling apart on those knees, yet he was still remarkably consistent across the board. Even at that his shooting was stellar, and his assists were solid and still bringing in over 1 steal per game. If we could have added Houston the summer of 97 that would have been huge, but replacing Horny with Houston would not have been enough to make the difference. Hornacek was still hugely valuable to our game, especially with our style of play, and gave us a much-needed secondary play-maker. Hell at 4 assists per game he would be one of the better play-makers on our team last year, and that wasn't even close to his focus.

So in my book, replacing Hornacek with Houston would not have been enough to get us over the top. Adding Houston may have done it, but I would argue that the defense we would lose, in either Russell or even Shandon Anderson, would off-set the offensive gains.

So no, Houston as a replacement for anyone else on the team was not the answer. As an addition it could have been a difference-maker.

 

[Udidthizz]

Here is a comparison of both of their first all star years. Hornacek only had this one, but mainly because he ended up playing in Utah where he was meant to be the 3rd option, and not many of those get all-star nods.

View attachment 12895

So in their prime, Hornacek all day every day. Beats him in literally every single category. Houston did have a couple of seasons better than this, but they weren't all star seasons.

Even in Houston's statistically best season compared to Horny's all star season the differences are noticeable.

View attachment 12896

More points and marginally better free throw shooter. Hornacek overall far more efficient and lit up more of the stat sheet with 5 ast and 5 boards per game to Houston at 3 of each. In steals especially, Horny at 2, Houston at not even 1. Defensively Hornacek was a sneaky good defender, and I would argue better than Houston, as Allan was primarily a scorer.

So if we could have ADDED Houston in 97 or 98 that would have been huge. But at that time, Hornacek was still more efficient, which was really valuable given the style of play we had at the time. Even comparing their 96-97 seasons they aren't that far off.

View attachment 12897

Horny still has the edge in shooting overall, and assists and steals, while points are identical. That would have helped us to have Houston that year, but we would have lost something on the defensive end, which was our core identity at the time.

And in 98?

View attachment 12898

This is really where Hornacek was falling apart on those knees, yet he was still remarkably consistent across the board. Even at that his shooting was stellar, and his assists were solid and still bringing in over 1 steal per game. If we could have added Houston the summer of 97 that would have been huge, but replacing Horny with Houston would not have been enough to make the difference. Hornacek was still hugely valuable to our game, especially with our style of play, and gave us a much-needed secondary play-maker. Hell at 4 assists per game he would be one of the better play-makers on our team last year, and that wasn't even close to his focus.

So in my book, replacing Hornacek with Houston would not have been enough to get us over the top. Adding Houston may have done it, but I would argue that the defense we would lose, in either Russell or even Shandon Anderson, would off-set the offensive gains.

So no, Houston as a replacement for anyone else on the team was not the answer. As an addition it could have been a difference-maker.

Good post! As an aside, looking at Hornacek’s 3pt % from the perspective of today’s league, it’s criminal how few attempts he got.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Good post! As an aside, looking at Hornacek’s 3pt % from the perspective of today’s league, it’s criminal how few attempts he got.

Horny would’ve been a beast offensively in this era. Looking at the stats his 3pt attempts dipped big time once he got to Utah with Sloan as the coach. Lol

 

[LogGrad98]

Good post! As an aside, looking at Hornacek’s 3pt % from the perspective of today’s league, it’s criminal how few attempts he got.

Yes from that alone he would absolutely slay today. Give him 10 shots per game and he could average 25 pretty easily.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

I'm not saying Hornacek was a bad player. ....

It may just come down to how much we see of a player. I saw Houston play often (yes, he was a top player, but when we see a lot of a player we also see the disappointments - John Starks is a better example of that), and I saw Hornacek sparingly (to me he always looked like a very good player, I never saw the warts one might see on a daily basis).

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

It may just come down to how much we see of a player. I saw Houston play often (yes, he was a top player, but when we see a lot of a player we also see the disappointments - John Starks is a better example of that), and I saw Hornacek sparingly (to me he always looked like a very good player, I never saw the warts one might see on a daily basis).

Watched a lot of Horny, little of Houston. There still seems more to Horny’s game then Houston. Houston is basically taller and more athletic which made him a better defender all though I’m pretty sure Horny gave more effort. Horny did basically everything else as good or better.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Here is a comparison of both of their first all star years. Hornacek only had this one, but mainly because he ended up playing in Utah where he was meant to be the 3rd option, and not many of those get all-star nods.

View attachment 12895

So in their prime, Hornacek all day every day. Beats him in literally every single category. Houston did have a couple of seasons better than this, but they weren't all star seasons.

Even in Houston's statistically best season compared to Horny's all star season the differences are noticeable.

View attachment 12896

More points and marginally better free throw shooter. Hornacek overall far more efficient and lit up more of the stat sheet with 5 ast and 5 boards per game to Houston at 3 of each. In steals especially, Horny at 2, Houston at not even 1. Defensively Hornacek was a sneaky good defender, and I would argue better than Houston, as Allan was primarily a scorer.

So if we could have ADDED Houston in 97 or 98 that would have been huge. But at that time, Hornacek was still more efficient, which was really valuable given the style of play we had at the time. Even comparing their 96-97 seasons they aren't that far off.

View attachment 12897

Horny still has the edge in shooting overall, and assists and steals, while points are identical. That would have helped us to have Houston that year, but we would have lost something on the defensive end, which was our core identity at the time.

And in 98?

View attachment 12898

This is really where Hornacek was falling apart on those knees, yet he was still remarkably consistent across the board. Even at that his shooting was stellar, and his assists were solid and still bringing in over 1 steal per game. If we could have added Houston the summer of 97 that would have been huge, but replacing Horny with Houston would not have been enough to make the difference. Hornacek was still hugely valuable to our game, especially with our style of play, and gave us a much-needed secondary play-maker. Hell at 4 assists per game he would be one of the better play-makers on our team last year, and that wasn't even close to his focus.

So in my book, replacing Hornacek with Houston would not have been enough to get us over the top. Adding Houston may have done it, but I would argue that the defense we would lose, in either Russell or even Shandon Anderson, would off-set the offensive gains.

So no, Houston as a replacement for anyone else on the team was not the answer. As an addition it could have been a difference-maker.

Watched a lot of Horny, little of Houston. There still seems more to Horny’s game then Houston. Houston is basically taller and more athletic which made him a better defender all though I’m pretty sure Horny gave more effort. Horny did basically everything else as good or better.

Hornacek was a spot up shooter, cutter who barely ever isoed. He played combo guard in his younger days. Hornacek wasn't the guy you handed the ball to to create a shot in the half court. He's normally getting his basket off of catch & shoots, spot ups, Dex, curls and cuts. An effective style of play nonetheless that can work for the right player, and Jeff was a master at that.

Houston had the superstar gene in that he was given the ball to Iso, and create. Hornacek couldn't triple threat, Iso, and attack better than Houston. That's why Horny had a better FG% in the lone year he averaged 20 ppg. His role was simply get open, if you have an open lane attack the basket. Let's see the differences in their game with actual footage.


This was a great game from Hornacek, mind you but watch how he's getting his points. Mostly spot ups, c&s, cuts or a simple drive to the basket, fast break. Effective basketball, but nowhere do you see Hornacek given the ball as the primary ballhandler to create his own shot. No face up, no Iso, no triple threat. Why? Because he wasn't a shot creator. He was a sharpshooter that works to get open to find his shots/get his usage.


Monster game from Hornacek. 40 points, 8/8 from 3. And this isn't a knock on his game, but you see how he's getting these 3's off right? He's rarely ever taking jumpers off the dribble (he did off the Malone pick that got him open)


Right off the bat we see a complete difference in Houston's game to Hornacek. Houston with triple threat, drive, pump fake and drills a middy. Rarely do you see Hornacek breaking his opponent down, hitting jumpers on an opponent that's closing out. Let's just get it out of the way (because you know I'm gonna say it) 22 points in 1 quarter! And he could get red hot like this often. Both Houston, and Hornacek were sharpshooting guards, but there was rarely any similarities in how they got their points. Statistics show that Hornacek was better in his best season in the NBA at passing, and rebounding, but we aren't taking team systems into account, and roles as well.

Hornacek was a better spot up shooter & cutter, but Houston is levels above Hornacek on shot creating, and finishing at the basket. You could argue he was better on the fastbreak too with his athleticism. Younger Jeff was faster, and could push the pace. Who's better at playing with their back to basket. Who was more clutch? Allan Houston. Houston was a primary ballhandler in the half court, and Hornacek, with the Jazz was more of a guy who had to get open to get his points.

Their archetype/play style are apples & oranges to each other, and basically what one guy doesn't do the other guy does it.

And Jeff Hornacek put up 12 ppg vs the Bulls in both Finals appearances. I think Houston would've put up a much better fight than that.



In a perfect world in Jazz land you have Allan Houston as the starting 2, and Hornacek as the 6th man lighting up second units.

Foster/Ostertag
Malone
Russell
Houston
Stockton

6th man - Hornacek to give a major boost to a poor 2nd unit.

The Jazz are 97-98 (possibly 99) champs.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Hornacek was a spot up shooter, cutter who barely ever isoed. He played combo guard in his younger days. Hornacek wasn't the guy you handed the ball to to create a shot in the half court. He's normally getting his basket off of catch & shoots, spot ups, Dex, curls and cuts. An effective style of play nonetheless that can work for the right player, and Jeff was a master at that.

Houston had the superstar gene in that he was given the ball to Iso, and create. Hornacek couldn't triple threat, Iso, and attack better than Houston. That's why Horny had a better FG% in the lone year he averaged 20 ppg. His role was simply get open, if you have an open lane attack the basket. Let's see the differences in their game with actual footage.


This was a great game from Hornacek, mind you but watch how he's getting his points. Mostly spot ups, c&s, cuts or a simple drive to the basket, fast break. Effective basketball, but nowhere do you see Hornacek given the ball as the primary ballhandler to create his own shot. No face up, no Iso, no triple threat. Why? Because he wasn't a shot creator. He was a sharpshooter that works to get open to find his shots/get his usage.


Monster game from Hornacek. 40 points, 8/8 from 3. And this isn't a knock on his game, but you see how he's getting these 3's off right? He's rarely ever taking jumpers off the dribble (he did off the Malone pick that got him open)


Right off the bat we see a complete difference in Houston's game to Hornacek. Houston with triple threat, drive, pump fake and drills a middy. Rarely do you see Hornacek breaking his opponent down, hitting jumpers on an opponent that's closing out. Let's just get it out of the way (because you know I'm gonna say it) 22 points in 1 quarter! And he could get red hot like this often. Both Houston, and Hornacek were sharpshooting guards, but there was rarely any similarities in how they got their points. Statistics show that Hornacek was better in his best season in the NBA at passing, and rebounding, but we aren't taking team systems into account, and roles as well.

Hornacek was a better spot up shooter & cutter, but Houston is levels above Hornacek on shot creating, and finishing at the basket. You could argue he was better on the fastbreak too with his athleticism. Younger Jeff was faster, and could push the pace. Who's better at playing with their back to basket. Who was more clutch? Allan Houston. Houston was a primary ballhandler in the half court, and Hornacek, with the Jazz was more of a guy who had to get open to get his points.

Their archetype/play style are apples & oranges to each other, and basically what one guy doesn't do the other guy does it.

And Jeff Hornacek put up 12 ppg vs the Bulls in both Finals appearances. I think Houston would've put up a much better fight than that.



In a perfect world in Jazz land you have Allan Houston as the starting 2, and Hornacek as the 6th man lighting up second units.

Foster/Ostertag
Malone
Russell
Houston
Stockton

6th man - Hornacek to give a major boost to a poor 2nd unit.

The Jazz are 97-98 (possibly 99) champs.

I did say that Houston was better during that time period, but both in their prime it absolutely was Horny. He could actually triple threat, but that wasn’t really asked for in the offense. I do recall a game where Stockton was suspended for a game and Horny started at pf which the jazz won and he looked natural at the position. What made those teams so good was the ability to hit shots at such a high rate and Malone shooting 10 or mor ft’s a game. The jazz just didn’t iso, like almost never. But Horny absolutely could do it.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Those jazz were so good because the ball was always in Stockton’s hands, and no one ran an offense as well as he did. Even at that time with Houston being better, I think replacing horny with Houston would’ve been more of a detriment to the offense taking the ball out of Stockton’s hands and taking opportunities away from Malone. The jazz had a perfect harmony that wouldn’t have been their with Houston asserting himself into the offense. This isn’t a criticism of any kind of player Houston was.

This is why I always said no one took over a game without scoring quite like Stockton did. Those jazz routinely shot 50% from the field because of how good Stockton ran the offense creating open look after open look, and it seemed half of those were at the rim. There’s a reason players seemed to regress once the left Utah in those days. Which is why Stockton is the greatest pure pg to ever play even into his late 30’s early 40’s.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Those jazz were so good because the ball was always in Stockton’s hands, and no one ran an offense as well as he did. Even at that time with Houston being better, I think replacing horny with Houston would’ve been more of a detriment to the offense taking the ball out of Stockton’s hands and taking opportunities away from Malone. The jazz had a perfect harmony that wouldn’t have been their with Houston asserting himself into the offense. This isn’t a criticism of any kind of player Houston was.

This is why I always said no one took over a game without scoring quite like Stockton did. Those jazz routinely shot 50% from the field because of how good Stockton ran the offense creating open look after open look, and it seemed half of those were at the rim. There’s a reason players seemed to regress once the left Utah in those days. Which is why Stockton is the greatest pure pg to ever play even into his late 30’s early 40’s.

It was also our downfall that our entire offense was orchestrated around John & Karl. Guys like Jeff Malone, Donyell Marshall & Hornacek seemed to not be able to release their full potential at times because of the way Sloan implemented the offense. It would be interesting how a shot creator who had a great 3 Level game like Houston would play under a Sloan system, because he seemed to want the ball to primarily run through John.

We could've used a player that could take the scoring load off Karl though. The great thing about Houston was he was a professional through and through. He had no issue taking the backseat for other scorers at, no issues playing out of position, clean cut, no drama, no issues with not being the #1 option. That's the type of star guard we could've used to match the firepower of other scoring guards in the league.

And yes, Jeff Hornacek was a beast. Criminally underrated too. I think both him and Houston did things better than the other, so it's really all about what you're looking for in a guard. The new generation like to call Hornacek a "plumber" in the Jordan era (utter disrespect). Hornacek would be a 25 ppg scorer, at the very least in todays game yet people clown him for being Jordan's final competition as a short, white combo guard. He gets as much disrespect, if not more than Allan Houston does. Houston kind of faded off into the shadows once his career was over. Hornacek gets brought up daily by people discrediting Jordan's legacy.

If only Sloan was more open with his system, and knew how to get Jeff more usage like he got in Phoenix who knows what could've happened. We relied a lot on John's masterclass facilitation. That was our crutch.

Guys like Houston and Hornacek would fit in well in today's era though. I like both, but I wish we could've brought Houston to Utah, and have Jeff run the 2nd unit as he was in his mid 30's when we went to the Finals. That team could've became a dynasty. Hornacek was a great facilitator and could run the floor well. Id imagine he'd light up 2nd units, as backup guards in the 90s were mostly below par. I'd sure as hell feel more confident in Jeff running the 2nd unit than Howard Sisley or Jacqueline Vaughn.

 

[LogGrad98]

Hornacek was a spot up shooter, cutter who barely ever isoed. He played combo guard in his younger days. Hornacek wasn't the guy you handed the ball to to create a shot in the half court. He's normally getting his basket off of catch & shoots, spot ups, Dex, curls and cuts. An effective style of play nonetheless that can work for the right player, and Jeff was a master at that.

Houston had the superstar gene in that he was given the ball to Iso, and create. Hornacek couldn't triple threat, Iso, and attack better than Houston. That's why Horny had a better FG% in the lone year he averaged 20 ppg. His role was simply get open, if you have an open lane attack the basket. Let's see the differences in their game with actual footage.


This was a great game from Hornacek, mind you but watch how he's getting his points. Mostly spot ups, c&s, cuts or a simple drive to the basket, fast break. Effective basketball, but nowhere do you see Hornacek given the ball as the primary ballhandler to create his own shot. No face up, no Iso, no triple threat. Why? Because he wasn't a shot creator. He was a sharpshooter that works to get open to find his shots/get his usage.


Monster game from Hornacek. 40 points, 8/8 from 3. And this isn't a knock on his game, but you see how he's getting these 3's off right? He's rarely ever taking jumpers off the dribble (he did off the Malone pick that got him open)


Right off the bat we see a complete difference in Houston's game to Hornacek. Houston with triple threat, drive, pump fake and drills a middy. Rarely do you see Hornacek breaking his opponent down, hitting jumpers on an opponent that's closing out. Let's just get it out of the way (because you know I'm gonna say it) 22 points in 1 quarter! And he could get red hot like this often. Both Houston, and Hornacek were sharpshooting guards, but there was rarely any similarities in how they got their points. Statistics show that Hornacek was better in his best season in the NBA at passing, and rebounding, but we aren't taking team systems into account, and roles as well.

Hornacek was a better spot up shooter & cutter, but Houston is levels above Hornacek on shot creating, and finishing at the basket. You could argue he was better on the fastbreak too with his athleticism. Younger Jeff was faster, and could push the pace. Who's better at playing with their back to basket. Who was more clutch? Allan Houston. Houston was a primary ballhandler in the half court, and Hornacek, with the Jazz was more of a guy who had to get open to get his points.

Their archetype/play style are apples & oranges to each other, and basically what one guy doesn't do the other guy does it.

And Jeff Hornacek put up 12 ppg vs the Bulls in both Finals appearances. I think Houston would've put up a much better fight than that.



In a perfect world in Jazz land you have Allan Houston as the starting 2, and Hornacek as the 6th man lighting up second units.

Foster/Ostertag
Malone
Russell
Houston
Stockton

6th man - Hornacek to give a major boost to a poor 2nd unit.

The Jazz are 97-98 (possibly 99) champs.

Yes but I would argue that with Stockton and Malone the best thing to add is efficiency and secondary playmaking, which they got in Hornacek. Rarely would they have handed the ball to Houston with Stockton and Malone on the floor together to make his own shot. That would happen mostly out of broken plays or maybe short shot clock scenarios. I think if you could have added Houston you keep Hornacek as the starter, as the perfect complement to Stockton and Malone, and bring Houston off the bench as a 20 ppg 6th man scoring threat. It's the bench unit that needs more individual shot creation, not a starting 5 where the primary PG is getting 12+ assists per game and the starting duo are both very high usage. Houston wasn't efficient enough for that. But off the bench with that team he could have been devastating. I remember watching those games just holding my breath when Stockton or Malone sat on the bench just hoping we didn't lose the lead, or get further in the hole, because our benches were usually just barely adequate. With Houston we could have watched them push the lead as a strategic advantage.

 

[JimLes]

I know a lot of boomers still think advanced stats are nonsense, but I'm a big fan.

And boy, do the advanced stats favour Horny over Houston. Houston had a higher usage rating, but did less with it. His win shares per 48 were .094 for the career while Hornacek's were .154. Hornacek's average BPM over his career 2.9 while Houston's were 0.1! Houston's defensive BPM is particularly bad. To put things into perspective, 2.9 BPM for the career are low-end Hall-of-Famer numbers. Worthy was 1.9 and Isiah Thomas was 2.6 for the career. Bryon Russell's BPM is better than Houston's.

Play-by-play numbers aren't available prior to 1996, but in that first season they were kept, Hornacek's on/off per 100 possessions was +22.7. His on-court per 100 possessions was +14 that year. Those are All-NBA numbers. Houston's on/off numbers are pedestrian. In fact, in the seasons we have info for, Houston had negative on/off numbers 4 out of 9 of them. And this isn't after he broke down. Those 4 seasons are 4 of his first 6 Knicks seasons. The Knicks may have been better with him off the floor than with him on the floor some of those years, and the advanced stats point to defense as the most likely culprit.