Nelson Mandela Dies
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b_line
Well-Known Member
RIP
This is what I was getting at earlier...
Anyway, Mandela was awesome. And RIP.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Was he or was he not the shot caller behind Umkhonto we Sizwe? They weren't just opposing the government for Anti-Apartheid reasons. They bombed shopping malls/cinemas and other civilian targets, killing scores of blacks and whites. How is that different than Boko Haram or the like? Again, I like the redemption angle, but the guy was not imprisoned just because he was anti-apartheid.
I'm looking forward to certain posters lecturing South Africans on who Mandela was and what he thought.
Zulu
Well-Known Member
I agree, but if he doesn't get arrested and sit in Jail 27 years where he is able to totally transform and craft a strategy to bring enemies together, there would have been a bloody civil war in the mid 90's that would've been the worst in that century.
I always love hearing what dead people thought from the mouths of politicians.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had plead guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.
Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of blacks in South Africa aren’t natives, but came by the millions from neighboring countries only after the white Boers created a country with a thriving economy, education opportunities and medical benefits.
Under white rule, blacks in South Africa enjoyed better living conditions than any other African country, where blacks kill each other in tribal warfare.
Since Mandela took over, South Africa has become a Third World country. It went from being the safest country in Africa, to being the rape and murder capital of the world. In Johannesburg, 5,000 people are murdered every year. Unemployment went from 5% in 1994 to 50% today.
Now I'm not saying that white>black or black>white...all of that is garbage racist crap, I don't do that. All I'm saying is that Mandela isn't who most people think he is. I would not classify him as a good man.
Oh, and some nice quotes from Mr. Mandela.
"Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro... Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny... There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people."
"The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction."
Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of blacks in South Africa aren’t natives, but came by the millions from neighboring countries only after the white Boers created a country with a thriving economy, education opportunities and medical benefits.
Under white rule, blacks in South Africa enjoyed better living conditions than any other African country, where blacks kill each other in tribal warfare.
Since Mandela took over, South Africa has become a Third World country. It went from being the safest country in Africa, to being the rape and murder capital of the world. In Johannesburg, 5,000 people are murdered every year. Unemployment went from 5% in 1994 to 50% today.
Now I'm not saying that white>black or black>white...all of that is garbage racist crap, I don't do that. All I'm saying is that Mandela isn't who most people think he is. I would not classify him as a good man.
Oh, and some nice quotes from Mr. Mandela.
"Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro... Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny... There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people."
"The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction."
So if "white rule" provides for a better quality of life (subjective standard) then blacks should submit to white rule? Is that the argument you're making?
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
No, not at all.
I should have said previous rule, I didn't want to make it out to be a racist thing. That was a poor comment on my part. I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps Mandela didn't exactly help out his country as much as people like to think he did.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Agree with this, and let me add a lot of disrespect on jazzfanz! Our history is riddled with stories of redemption. It's what makes God a merciful God. It's not for us to judge him for his past, but for God alone. Even as bad as Saul was in the bible, he was great and did much good as the prophet Paul, giving his life in the service of God.
My point is if a man be forgiven his sins, we should as well.
We should recognize him as the man he is and not the man he was before prison, and is not the man that died.