No more circumcision in SF?

[7StraightIsGreat]

Just because it is external does not mean it is without risk. Also, appendix removal is outpatient surgery, is done arthroscopically now, and has basically no side effects outside of the possibility of infection, which is also present in circumcision. So compare it to tonsils then if you would like another comparison that is less invasive. Point is there is almost never any medical reason for a circumcision.

I don't know about it being the parent's choice. I have mixed feelings about this. If there is no medical need then why should it be viewed as anything besides mutilation just because it is not "invasive". Should the parent's be allowed to choose to physically alter any other part of their baby's anatomy for no reason? If I don't like my kid's ears, should I be allowed to have them cut off or maybe just modified so they look better to me? After all they are not really necessary, the hearing part is internal. Should it be the parent's choice to bifurcate the kid's tongue so he can be the snake-man like that cool guy on TV?

Also, I don't know about the other parents here but in my case the decision for my first son came to me in the form of :

Nurse: "Mr. Grad, I know you and your wife just went through 30 hours of labor and an emergency c-section, but you need to sign this so we can circumcise your son."
Me: "Huh, what? Are you the nurse?"
Nurse: "Yes. You need to sign this if you want us to proceed with the circumcision."
Me: "Sign what? Oh ok I guess."

And don't think there are no adverse outcomes in circumcision. I can tell you 2 stories that would probably change your mind on the whole thing (well it did mine) and one of them is very close to me personally. Let's just say we ended up really regretting the decision to circumcise our younger son. The other case almost ended with a child losing his, uh, member. It was bad. With risks like that and literally no reward, why have it even as an option?

***

You know, I knew I was not in favor of it, and would tell people not to do it, but I honestly did not know I felt that strongly about it until I started writing about it here. I guess I am very much against the practice and would support a law making it just as illegal as any other mutilation for reasons other than medical necessity.

I see where you're coming from, but where we part ways is the idea of making it illegal. There's doctors on both sides of the fence on whether or not there is benefit to it, but statistically I believe you're actually more likely to collect bacteria and get an infection with an uncircumcized *****. Granted, if you wash your ***** (really, really good) it probably won't matter anyway.

I also understand your point that infant circumcision isn't without chance of complication, but the complication sounds greatly increased the older you get.

Again, I don't really disagree with you on most of your points, but trying to make it illegal seems very heavy-handed to me.

 

[One Brow]

No real benefit?

Only because that's what they are used to. Try the same poll on European women.

 

[Agoxlea]

If this passes then will babies have to wait till they can decide which vaccinations they want ?

Don't even get me started on vaccinations. If you don't see how completely different this is from vaccinations of children there might be little hope of explaining it to you. The idiocy of people not vaccinating their children not only affects their own children, but others as well which is why vaccinations must be mandatory. Fortunately you are usually really sarcastic so I don't think you were serious, but anti-vaxers upset me REALLY REALLY bad.

 

[sirkickyass]

Don't even get me started on vaccinations. If you don't see how completely different this is from vaccinations of children there might be little hope of explaining it to you. The idiocy of people not vaccinating their children not only affects their own children, but others as well which is why vaccinations must be mandatory. Fortunately you are usually really sarcastic so I don't think you were serious, but anti-vaxers upset me REALLY REALLY bad.

Please tell me more.

But seriously, https://jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

 

[PearlWatson]

Don't even get me started on vaccinations. If you don't see how completely different this is from vaccinations of children there might be little hope of explaining it to you. The idiocy of people not vaccinating their children not only affects their own children, but others as well which is why vaccinations must be mandatory. Fortunately you are usually really sarcastic so I don't think you were serious, but anti-vaxers upset me REALLY REALLY bad.

From a consent perspective he has a point.

 

[Agoxlea]

Please tell me more.

But seriously, https://jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

Haha she might be the worst of them all. It's nice to see numbers attached to her idiocy.

From a consent perspective he has a point.

Ummm no. I'm all for people having their own rights UNTIL those rights start infringing on my own right for my yet to be conceived children to not be unnecessarily put at risk of a disease, such as the measles, before they are old enough to be vaccinated.

 

[PearlWatson]

Ummm no. I'm all for people having their own rights UNTIL those rights start infringing on my own right for my yet to be conceived children to not be unnecessarily put at risk of a disease, such as the measles, before they are old enough to be vaccinated.

Umm yes. If it is wrong to hurt them for a few seconds/minutes for circumcision because they can't consent then it is wrong to hurt them for a few seconds/minutes/days/years for vaccination because they can't consent.

If you are really worried about your future spawn and their exposure to illness then you should be extremely worried about our illegal alien population.

 

[Agoxlea]

I disagree. Circumcision only affects one individual (healthwise) at the most. Vaccination affects everyone. That is where the difference is. I actually don't think circumcision should be illegal, but see where they're coming from. Circumcision doesn't really have an undeniable health benefit that justifies it, but I'm still ok with this one being up to parents.

I agree that illegal immigrants could pose a health risk, but we will most likely disagree on how to deal with that problem. That's ok though. I'll stop hijacking this thread and let it get back on topic.

 

[One Brow]

Umm yes. If it is wrong to hurt them for a few seconds/minutes for circumcision because they can't consent then it is wrong to hurt them for a few seconds/minutes/days/years for vaccination because they can't consent.

Since circumcision has no secualr personal benefits and no secular societal benefits, while vaccination has both, your comparision is ill-founded.

If you are really worried about your future spawn and their exposure to illness then you should be extremely worried about our illegal alien population.

The danger of getting measles from a non-vaccinated child is actually considerably higher than getting TB from an immigrant. Ensuring vaccination is a much more effective protection strategy.

 

[Scat]

Only because that's what they are used to. Try the same poll on European women.

I should care what European women stick in their mouth because... ?

 

[sirkickyass]

I should care what European women stick in their mouth because... ?

Clearly you need to travel to Prague more.

 

[Archie Moses]

Clearly you need to travel to Prague more.

This is coming from a guy who enjoys **** from a guy in a rabbit costume. lol