Game Thread Oct 26, 2021 08:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Nuggets

[homeytennis]

Watching the game last night, I came to the conclusion that Butler, Dok and Hughes need some playing time with the Stars. Butler needs some confidence back. Dok and Hughes because they aren't very good at this level.

 

[infection]

Watching the game last night, I came to the conclusion that Butler, Dok and Hughes need some playing time with the Stars. Butler needs some confidence back. Dok and Hughes because they aren't very good at this level.

We’re playing Houston tomorrow. Butler should get some burn.

 

[KqWIN]

I would respond to this with two things in stating that we're not talking about a large sum of minutes here, and Gay having to transition to a different role isn't meaning that he's now playing 15 minutes a night with the main unit. I'm talking more about maybe 5 minutes a night as a ceiling, if that. The second is on the question of the defensive issues. I believe the largest difference you would have would come down to how we could close defensive possessions in crunch time. We've been one of the worse rebounding teams in the crunch and the whole idea of Gay is that you have someone can can rotate down low when Rudy contests. Between him being a bigger body to protect the rim and being able to better secure rebounds like a forward, this would go a long way in correcting a gigantic flaw in our system that tends to only manifest in the clutch and is virtually absent the rest of the game and does not show up in any composite numbers. The second part of it goes back to the offensive end where our struggles tend to get contagious and when other teams are going on a run we tighten up. I don't see Royce hitting shots in those scenarios, and feel like Gay's versatility gives us a few more tools to combat that, even if he's not the guy you're throwing the ball to.

Whether Gay is playing in the starting lineup or not, that role is going to have to shift or someone else on the team has to shift. Paschall is playing 0 minutes in the main lineup and he's at 9% usage. That's the bulk of where Gay's minutes would theoretically come from. Whatever lineup Gay plays in there's going to be excess usage because that's how this team was built. Almost every player in the rotation wants to shoot or handle the ball a lot.

I don't disagree with how Gay can help us, but if you're replacing Royce with Gay I don't there is that much to gain in terms of the big man stuff. If we struggle with Royce, we're still going to struggle mightily if you replace him with Gay. Even if he's better at the secondary big man stuff, it comes at the cost of having a significantly worse primary defender (who is even our primary defender...it's not Bogey). If you switch out Bogey for Gay....now that is a significant difference where you're going from a complete zero/negative to something positive.

I just don't have much concern about the offense because it has been consistently elite even when we're missing someone. Every team goes on offensive runs and droughts, it's just part of the game. Sure, there are some rough patches, but when we have an elite offense and historically awful defense I tend to put more weight on the latter issue. Gay can score in difficult situations, which is nice and could come in handy....but he's also not very good at it these days. When we're in a tough scoring drought, I don't think the problem is that we don't have Rudy Gay or that Royce isn't getting that tough bucket for us. We're in a scoring drought because our best players missed a couple shots in a row or our shooters can't hit. It's not that we don't have enough talent, we're just not performing. If it was a talent issue, which is very much a part of the problem on defense, we wouldn't be able to maintain an elite level offense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Watching the game last night, I came to the conclusion that Butler, Dok and Hughes need some playing time with the Stars. Butler needs some confidence back. Dok and Hughes because they aren't very good at this level.

Butler just needs one shot to fall and all the pressure will fall off his shoulders. I’d consider resting Mike or Joe versus Houston and getting Forrest and Butler some run. Not a back to back… it’s early in the season… but reducing the games played is still important. Schedule gets harder after Thursday so get some rest before a small gauntlet.

Butler is playing in such short stints it’s really hard to figure anything out. It’s good he’s preparing for games and getting some time. Getting two 8 minute stints would help him actually feel comfortable out there. I don’t want him in the g league… keep him around the vets and figure out how to contribute with other great players around you.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I would respond to this with two things in stating that we're not talking about a large sum of minutes here, and Gay having to transition to a different role isn't meaning that he's now playing 15 minutes a night with the main unit. I'm talking more about maybe 5 minutes a night as a ceiling, if that. The second is on the question of the defensive issues. I believe the largest difference you would have would come down to how we could close defensive possessions in crunch time. We've been one of the worse rebounding teams in the crunch and the whole idea of Gay is that you have someone can can rotate down low when Rudy contests. Between him being a bigger body to protect the rim and being able to better secure rebounds like a forward, this would go a long way in correcting a gigantic flaw in our system that tends to only manifest in the clutch and is virtually absent the rest of the game and does not show up in any composite numbers. The second part of it goes back to the offensive end where our struggles tend to get contagious and when other teams are going on a run we tighten up. I don't see Royce hitting shots in those scenarios, and feel like Gay's versatility gives us a few more tools to combat that, even if he's not the guy you're throwing the ball to.

From memory Royce hit some nice clutch shots last year, I would guess his clutch shooting was pretty good. If rebounding is the issue it seems like Royce + Gay would be better than either by themselves.

Personally I don't think it is too big of a deal either way. I prefer Royce + Gay vs Bogey + Gay. Neither might be upgrades over Bogey + Royce, but I'm excited to see how Gay could fit in. I wish we had a better timeline for his recovery.

 

[KqWIN]

Conley-Mitchell-O'Neale-Gay-Gobert actually has the makings of a good defensive lineup. Having Gay and O'Neale provides a lot of coverage and guarantees that you at least have one player besides Gobert with some life playing off the ball in a help position. I think we'd still be able to score at an elite level too if Gay's shooting keeps up. His 3 point shooting volume and accuracy was very similar to Bogey last year.

 

[framer]

Realistically we kind of got lucky that their team was heavily depleted because we did not deserve this win. We played like crap for 2.5 quarters at least. And mediocre for another quarter. So for 1/2 of a quarter we played solid ball, and since they were short their 2 best players they couldn't overcome it. But if they had been at full strength we did not play well enough to win. I hate games like this, hard to enjoy the win with multiple asterisks.

I mean we were blow for blow with them while we were "sucking" and they were playing all world. Sucks for them that they have injuries, but I'm not going to cry for them. Nobody cries for us when we have injuries and we play an entire month without Donovan and Mike. Nobody here gets to blame injuries for us going out against the Clippers. The last few years we have played Denver on the backside of a back to back 6 out of 8 times. Depth is part of the game.

If you want to assign asterisks, that's you choice, but it is a hard way to go through life.

 

[framer]

What is DM insurance anyways? If DM is out in the playoffs we have no chance anyways. That's not a situation we should think about too much because we're losing no matter what. It's nice to keep things going during the RS if he's out, but that's why we have Butler and all these other scorers on the team. We can ask Clarkson, Ingles, Gay, Paschall, Butler ect to pick up some scoring/ball handling responsibilities because that's who they are as players and we don't have enough touches/minutes for them in the first place. Meanwhile Royce is the only defensive non big on roster that we're sure is an NBA level player.

Bogey is a nice luxury but not one we can afford when we have massive needs that need to be addressed. If Bogey was playing for another team right now, I don't think any of us would be thinking that we need another scorer and that we should go out and get him.

DM insurance is what keeps us out of the play in games and allows us favorable seeding. We keep Butler because he isn't going to be close to starter level this year.

Trading Bojan for someone like Hart is just moronic. Bojan made a difference for Indiana before we got him. If Hart were any good, he'd at least have made a marginal impact on any team he has played for before this point. I'd think twice before adding anyone from that underachieving train wreck of New Orleans at the price it would take to get them.

 

[framer]

Watching the game last night, I came to the conclusion that Butler, Dok and Hughes need some playing time with the Stars. Butler needs some confidence back. Dok and Hughes because they aren't very good at this level.

All of the player are belong to Homeytennis and the Stars.

 

[infection]

All of the player are belong to Homeytennis and the Stars.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

 

[KqWIN]

DM insurance is what keeps us out of the play in games and allows us favorable seeding. We keep Butler because he isn't going to be close to starter level this year.

Trading Bojan for someone like Hart is just moronic. Bojan made a difference for Indiana before we got him. If Hart were any good, he'd at least have made a marginal impact on any team he has played for before this point. I'd think twice before adding anyone from that underachieving train wreck of New Orleans at the price it would take to get them.

If the Jazz traded Bojan for a librarian we wouldn't be close to the play in games. If Bogey and Mitchell were the only scorers/ball handlers on the roster maybe, but we have a serious surplus scorers/ball handlers that we don't have the touches for. It wouldn't kill us to get players with skillsets we need desperately instead of stacking our team with even more scorers/ball handlers. It's never a bad thing to be well situated if your star goes down....but how of that do you really need and how important is covering for the disaster scenario? We have more than enough.

Taking a player from a bad situation who can excel in a better situation seems like a great idea, that's how we got Clarkson. If you think Hart is the reason NOP can't win, I don't know what to tell you. Davis and Holiday couldn't even win there. Hart isn't perfect, but neither is Bogey. He's been a great rebounder and hustle guy his whole career. We could really use that considering the fact that we've had to back to back historic defensive failures. I don't think it's moronic at all to try and address that issue.

 

[LogGrad98]

I mean we were blow for blow with them while we were "sucking" and they were playing all world. Sucks for them that they have injuries, but I'm not going to cry for them. Nobody cries for us when we have injuries and we play an entire month without Donovan and Mike. Nobody here gets to blame injuries for us going out against the Clippers. The last few years we have played Denver on the backside of a back to back 6 out of 8 times. Depth is part of the game.

If you want to assign asterisks, that's you choice, but it is a hard way to go through life.

Wow you read a lot of weird **** into stuff. You're projecting bro. My point was they are missing their best people and we really got lucky to win and therefore we need to do better. Not sure how that affects your psyche with your whole life's path talk but I hope you get the help you need.

 

[framer]

Wow you read a lot of weird **** into stuff. You're projecting bro. My point was they are missing their best people and we really got lucky to win and therefore we need to do better. Not sure how that affects your psyche with your whole life's path talk but I hope you get the help you need.

Did we get lucky? I'd posit that they needed all world games from Jokic, Barton, and Gordon to just stay even. ANd we weren't supposedly playing well. That game looked a lot like the last few times we played them where they shoot unworldly, play no defense, and we pull away at the end after locking down for the last 10 minutes.

All I'm saying is that we should enjoy every damn win. Sometimes things get stacked against us and we lose. Thankfully it happened to the other guy this time. Denver is good, but Jokic's durability is part of their equation, just like Mike's is a part of ours.

Jazz generally start slow. Weren't we 3-3 to start last season?