Official Rudy Gobert Trade Ideas Thread

[One Brow]

You seemed to be disagreeing with Cy's take that the will to play consistent defense is an ability.

Will(power) is not an ability, it's an attribute. Certainly some people have more than others. In todays NBA, everyone has a lot of will.

However, I think Cy (and you) have misunderstood "will" or confused it with "habit". You use will to cultivate habits, among other things. You'll notice I agreed you can't just turn it off and on.

 

[One Brow]

To a point. Niang has the will but he doesn't have the agility or speed to even match up with a player like Mann. Both undrafted or late 2nds and end of bench players. One had career games, the other was played off the floor.

And Ingles is losing more than a few steps. His defense was pretty shoddy largely because it was obvious he couldn't keep up.

I completely agree.

 

[babobombarder]

Goberts problem is that he doesnt have any sort of game offensively. He literally doesnt have a single move and can only score off of lobs and wide open dunks. He is also very clumsy with the ball and doesnt have good hands. If he bothered to learn a move or two all these years hes been in the league, he is big enough and athletic enough to abuse any small lineup. But since he is so limited offensively and can be guarded by a traffic cone, all the opposing team has to do is find a strategy to try and limit his defensive impact which Clippers managed to do very well. Goberts lack of offense is what allows small ball to be so effective against this Jazz team. If you add to that a fact that Mike Conley ( who is an all star caliber PG when hes at his best) was injured and that coach Snyder (who is supposed to be one of the best coaches in the league) was terrible at making adjustments while coach Lue (who for some reason is a laughing stock) made adjustments brilliantly and you get 4 wins in a row for LAC. Jazz can change rest of their roster as much as they want, get more athletic wings, better defenders, whatever... but similarly to Simmons, unless Gobert improves his game offensively he will always be a liability that can be taken advantage of in the playoffs. There is no room for players who completely lack any sort of offensive skillset in the modern basketball which is all about offense.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

This is a bitch thread and should be shut down immediately and all Rudy heretics cancelled forthwith

 

[One Brow]

Goberts problem is that he doesnt have any sort of game offensively.

How would Gobert having an additional offensive repertoire have prevented Jackson/George/Beverly/etc. from getting to the hoop at will?

But since he is so limited offensively and can be guarded by a traffic cone,

Defensively, they limited Gobert by denying passing lanes to the ball-handler. How does an additional offensive repertoire change that?

Goberts lack of offense is what allows small ball to be so effective against this Jazz team.

When we go small, other types drive to the hoop at will. Why can't we do the same when the Clippers go small? What did they do, that we don't?

 

[babobombarder]

How would Gobert having an additional offensive repertoire have prevented Jackson/George/Beverly/etc. from getting to the hoop at will?


Defensively, they limited Gobert by denying passing lanes to the ball-handler. How does an additional offensive repertoire change that?


When we go small, other types drive to the hoop at will. Why can't we do the same when the Clippers go small? What did they do, that we don't?

Gobert is a big strong athletic guy with huge wingspan. And he uses that to play great defense and hes won 3 DPOY. If he could use that to make an impact on the offensive end Jazz would be a completely different team. So he doesnt have to be Hakeem or Jokić, all he needs to do is be able to post up and abuse smaller guys (you know like every other big man in the league can do). That wouldnt prevent Jackson/George/Beverly/etc. from getting to the hoop at will, but that would mean that going small against the Jazz means youre giving up dunk/layup, easy basket every single defensive possesion and Gobert would look like Shaq against small lineups if only he could use his size to his advantage on the offensive end like he uses it on the defensive end. Then opposing coaches would think twice about going small because that would mean they are for certain giving up ******** of easy baskets on the defensive end and effectiveness of their small lineup becomes very questionable. Since Gobert cant do that and can be guarded by almost any player big or small hes a non factor on the offensive end, going small and limiting his defensive impact is always gonna look like a great idea and small lineup will always be the best strategy for beating Jazz if they have Gobert playing the way he has so far, regardless of who the other players on the Jazz roster are

 

[Jingled]

How would Gobert having an additional offensive repertoire have prevented Jackson/George/Beverly/etc. from getting to the hoop at will?

The way to get the other team to stop playing small is to punish them with your big guy on the offensive end. Unfortunately Gobert's never been able to punish teams for defending him with smaller players because he's so limited offensively.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

How would Gobert having an additional offensive repertoire have prevented Jackson/George/Beverly/etc. from getting to the hoop at will?


Defensively, they limited Gobert by denying passing lanes to the ball-handler. How does an additional offensive repertoire change that?


When we go small, other types drive to the hoop at will. Why can't we do the same when the Clippers go small? What did they do, that we don't?

The way to get the other team to stop playing small is to punish them with your big guy on the offensive end. Unfortunately Gobert's never been able to punish teams for defending him with smaller players because he's so limited offensively.

I mean we are literally seeing it in the Suns series. Ty is afraid to go small with Ayton. Having Zubac out there means Rudy gets to be involved at the rim without being punished by wide *** open corner threes.

 

[babobombarder]

The way to get the other team to stop playing small is to punish them with your big guy on the offensive end. Unfortunately Gobert's never been able to punish teams for defending him with smaller players because he's so limited offensively.

This. Basketball is a simple game in the end, but you need to have the right pieces. Players who are defensive specialists but have no offensive game are becoming extinct and there is a good reason for that while on the other hand players who have offensive skillsets but are bad at defense are valued rather nice and are big part of modern basketball

 

[jazfan23]

The odd game?

Without Rudy we would have been a lottery team this year. If the injury that happened to Mitchell had happened to Gobert instead we had a decent chance of missing the playoffs entirely let alone holding the #1 seed.

Man people are terrible at evaluating impact on the game. Just go look at the on/off numbers for the season for Gobert and the effect is startling. The fact that the team that beat us employed a scheme entirely center around negating Gobert while not really worrying about Mitchell at all speaks volumes. And the inability of the team to adapt to that change wasn't on Rudy, it was on the coaching staff for simply having no answer and on the FO for being lulled into such a sense of security by Gobert's dominating presence that they complete ignored our obvious deficiency, perimeter D, and instead drafted a project big and made no other moves to address that problem.

The clippers were a nightmare matchup for us, but not because of Gobert. It was because they exposed the fact that we have no one, NO ONE outside of Gobert who even plays passable defense, so if you have the personnel to pull him away from the rim, since no one on our team can even bother anyone on D, it exposes our lack of team D due to Gobert making up for so many shortcomings on defense.

By the way he was also just as impactful on offense this season due to his gravity at the rim. Why do you think every drive ended up in an open 3? Because they were forced to collapse and try to stop the threat of the Gobert dunk which also opens lanes for the driver.

People watch a few games, in which Gobert is literally trying to guard the entire floor because our team can't guard anyone, and say "see, Gobert can't guard the 3 pt line, get his weak *** out of here".

The depth of basketball ignorance on this site is staggering.

Obviously you’re a stats guy , that doesn’t watch the game closely… how many post seasons have teams exposed the Rudy match up ?

Sure he puts up nice stats in the regular season , doesn’t do much for us in the playoffs

Rudy is wide open on offence for a reason , he can’t catch a ball , he can’t finish outside of a dunk , he his team mates no longer trust passing him the ball outside of him dunking the ball

You sound like you work in Utah front office and don’t want to admit what our failings are … terrible basketball knowledge

 

[LoPo]

I'm so tired of the Rudy apologists.

Elite playoff players don't rely on anybody else to have an impact on the offensive end. If Shaq or Duncan didn't get the feeds for them to post up, they were still getting amazingly timed offensive rebounds, putbacks, etc.

Elite players find a way to impose their elite abilities on the game. I've watched too many playoff minutes where Rudy just isn't impactful on defense and he's completely absent on offense.

This doesn't mean he is a bad player. I think he is a very good player. He just isn't elite. The only people who think he is elite are the Rudy apologists.

Stop saying we need to build a perfect team around Rudy. Those days should be gone. Build around Don.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LogGrad98]

Obviously you’re a stats guy , that doesn’t watch the game closely… how many post seasons have teams exposed the Rudy match up ?

Sure he puts up nice stats in the regular season , doesn’t do much for us in the playoffs

Rudy is wide open on offence for a reason , he can’t catch a ball , he can’t finish outside of a dunk , he his team mates no longer trust passing him the ball outside of him dunking the ball

You sound like you work in Utah front office and don’t want to admit what our failings are … terrible basketball knowledge

Lmfao

You watch 3 games and think you're an expert. And you apparently haven't even read a single post of mine. What an idiot.

The problem is far more about who is around Gobert than Gobert himself. Last year it was our perimeter D that was exposed and it was a guard going off for multiple 50-point games and just plain blowing by anyone in front of him, and not even that great of a guard. We made Murray look like Jordan and that wasn't Gobert, that was on our perimeter defenders, who all suck.

So you keep armchairing it. You can ignore all the times Gobert has bailed out his teammates because they can't guard a mannequin and just blame everything on Gobert not having a hook shot, even though we had one of the best offensive ratings in the playoffs and the 2nd best in the regular season, while our defensive rating is 30 points worse with Gobert off the court.

But yeah, it's all Gobert's fault. Let's get Drummond since he can post up and I'm sure we'll have multiple rings while everyone scores 150 on us every night.

****ing moran.