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Official Utah/Minnesota/Philadelphia Pick Watch

HermanG said:
I obviously offended you, which I do apologize. But I have tried to stay at arguing the points or rebutting your claims and arguments. I do realize its a thin line at times.

I am happy to let this go without touching the previous post, and likely we just disagree on this.

For the record I do think the tank might come eventually if we fall far enough below the play-in line. I will know its here when Johnny Juzang or Micah Potter "evaluation" begins.
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I have certain hot buttons… I am irrationally confident but I have my reasons. I have no problem running counter to reports or direct messaging from the front office… there have been several times a lot of posters lol me for reading between the lines and it turns out I was 100% right. Not every time of course…

Agree to disagree… water under the bridge… we good

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Release the Kraken said:
You say that DLo was playing at a high clip, but yet I say they were a broken team because Gobert was not being integrated into the offensive scheme due primarily to the selfish “get mine” play of DLo and Ant. As I expressed in my earlier post, in the two games since Conley arrived, the Gobert pick n’ roll has been reconstituted and Gobert had b 2 b games of 21 and 17, his best all year, and 3 blocks against Washington (season high?) and double digit rebounding both games thanks to Conley’s playmaking and connection to the big man. All pointing to the fact that Minny is a much improved team with Conley and much more likely to make the playoffs and diminish our acquired first.

And on the other hand, if we cannot get off Westbrook this season, we cannot hide him, or put him on the injury report erroneously without the risk of league penalty. So he plays for us in some capacity, we win at a higher clip, make the playoffs and lose our own first’s chance at a high pick. Also, and just as importantly, he’s a proven team vibe killer so the chance that, there goes the team culture in that scenario.

All said, this move was a risk we didn’t have to take for one lousy protected first. Have you even seen the returns on Vando? Perk and the rest of the NBA team are saying that his energy has transformed the Lakers. His, Beasley’s and NAW’s stock was only going to improve, meaning we get more, not less in the off-season. And having a player coach with Conley in camp next year would have been a blessing not a curse.
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Im not sold that Conley will boost Rudys offense enough to compensate on what he himself gives up in comparison to DLo.

I know the returns are great for LA and I knew they would be (called it right away).. but Vando minutes were on their way down here. You dont raise value sitting on the bench. Kessler minutes were tied with Vandos in Hardys system/mind.

Kessler and Vando shared the court for only 63 minutes all season. In comparison, Kessler has played 23 minutes with Bolmaro and 132 minutes with Fontecchio.
 
Tanking or NOT - I do not know what they think- they can't say we are tanking.
BUT
Danny's trades besides of Gobert and Mitchell where teams were very hot for them are so poor.
Let's sum it up.
B.Bogdanovic, M.Conley, Vando, M.Beasley, NAW, 2nd pick - this is a ton of assets FOR Westrbrook (sorry) C.Olynyk (meh, no future move) Saben(gone) Juan T.Anderson, Damian Jones 1st round 2027 LAL (1-4 protect ) potential 2nd rounder. - very big risk.
 
jazzfan1132 said:
Tanking or NOT - I do not know what they think- they can't say we are tanking.
BUT
Danny's trades besides of Gobert and Mitchell where teams were very hot for them are so poor.
Let's sum it up.
B.Bogdanovic, M.Conley, Vando, M.Beasley, NAW, 2nd pick - this is a ton of assets FOR Westrbrook (sorry) C.Olynyk (meh, no future move) Saben(gone) Juan T.Anderson, Damian Jones 1st round 2027 LAL (1-4 protect ) potential 2nd rounder. - very big risk.
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You just gonna leave Pat Bev-THT hanging like that?
 
I think, long term, swapping Conley for Russell was a bad move for the Wolves. They get older, and Mike's hammy is always on the edge. Even if they wanted off of Russell, they should have used him to gather some safer salary slots. Nobody's going to take Conley after next year or his expiring without an asset and Minny is REALLY low on assets.

Conley makes them better if they run Conley's style, but I am not sure they should be running Conley's style, especially once KAT comes back. Them taking the time to set up the Gobert pick and roll (which is good, but maybe not best) takes the ball away from their star and clogs up their motion. They should absolutely not be tailoring their offense to cater more to Gobert.

They needed stuff and their "finishing" move was getting Mike Conley. I love Mike, but I have seen this movie. I guess they got NAW, who I also like, but he's not putting anyone over the top either. I do predict he will be their starting PG by the end of next season though.

I think Danny knows all of this which is why he was so insistent on getting the deal done even if it looks a bit thin on our side. He further harms the Wolves long term and hopefully vaults the Lakers past them (and us) in the near term. He also frees up playing time for Kessler (who can't really play with Vando,) Ochai, THT (We really need to know what we have there,) as well as rookies we will draft.

And the part I like is that we aren't going to do the "taking on bad contracts" part of the rebuild which I hate.
 
framer said:
I think, long term, swapping Conley for Russell was a bad move for the Wolves. They get older, and Mike's hammy is always on the edge. Even if they wanted off of Russell, they should have used him to gather some safer salary slots. Nobody's going to take Conley after next year or his expiring without an asset and Minny is REALLY low on assets.

Conley makes them better if they run Conley's style, but I am not sure they should be running Conley's style, especially once KAT comes back. Them taking the time to set up the Gobert pick and roll (which is good, but maybe not best) takes the ball away from their star and clogs up their motion. They should absolutely not be tailoring their offense to cater more to Gobert.

They needed stuff and their "finishing" move was getting Mike Conley. I love Mike, but I have seen this movie. I guess they got NAW, who I also like, but he's not putting anyone over the top either. I do predict he will be their starting PG by the end of next season though.

I think Danny knows all of this which is why he was so insistent on getting the deal done even if it looks a bit thin on our side. He further harms the Wolves long term and hopefully vaults the Lakers past them (and us) in the near term. He also frees up playing time for Kessler (who can't really play with Vando,) Ochai, THT (We really need to know what we have there,) as well as rookies we will draft.

And the part I like is that we aren't going to do the "taking on bad contracts" part of the rebuild which I hate.
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Extremely well said. Russell absolutely won a few games by his shooting alone this year. Their biggest problem now is they have no real scoring threat outside of Edwards for as long as KAT is out.
 
The point will be how they can improve as a team next year. For Minny fan, this year is to improve and learn how to play with KAT and Rudy. They believe they can be better with Mike. Russell make they win some games with shooting but also make them lose a lot with stupid decisions and mistakes last year. Last year they blow a lot of leads in the PO against Memphis, they believe with a good playmaker , it can change. Not sure at all they right. Will take times to see if a combo ANT-Rudy.-KAT can be great. On paper it looks possible but chemistry is not easy things to get. We have seen it with Don-Rudy- Bogey-Mike and some others good players who never manage to do it.
 
jazzfan1132 said:
Tanking or NOT - I do not know what they think- they can't say we are tanking.
BUT
Danny's trades besides of Gobert and Mitchell where teams were very hot for them are so poor.
Let's sum it up.
B.Bogdanovic, M.Conley, Vando, M.Beasley, NAW, 2nd pick - this is a ton of assets FOR Westrbrook (sorry) C.Olynyk (meh, no future move) Saben(gone) Juan T.Anderson, Damian Jones 1st round 2027 LAL (1-4 protect ) potential 2nd rounder. - very big risk.
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The Bogdanovic trade was definitely weird but it looks as though he may not have had that much trade value after all, the Pistons weren't able to move him at the ASB.

I also think people vastly overrated Conley/Vando/Beasley as assets and vastly underrate the value of FRPs, especially unprotected picks. Danny has everyone jaded because of how much value he got back for Don / Rudy but getting unprotected FRPs is difficult to do.
 
I do think DA do the best to make sure we are in the lottery this year but not too bad to avoid years of mediocrity. Not much other choice anyway. Going into the draft is always risky as you can pick the wrong guys and loose years but on the other side, Jazz is a small market and even with overpaying FA, i'm not sure we can get what we really need. I would have probably done the same if i was at DA position. Except that i would have probably try one more year with Rudy-Don and do it in 2023.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
I do think DA do the best to make sure we are in the lottery this year but not too bad to avoid years of mediocrity. Not much other choice anyway. Going into the draft is always risky as you can pick the wrong guys and loose years but on the other side, Jazz is a small market and even with overpaying FA, i'm not sure we can get what we really need. I would have probably done the same if i was at DA position. Except that i would have probably try one more year with Rudy-Don and do it in 2023.
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You were never going to get the Rudy/Don trades this off-season. It was now or never when he made those deals. I would’ve loved to see Don and Lauri play together, but that would have required the Jazz making a deal with the Bulls instead of running it back last offseason.

Considering what kind of return they got for Jingles and Bogey, it would’ve made sense to try to do that deal and build around our two young stars.
 
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