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On the record...

fallenchicken said:
Gobert Stan’s will never admit it, but Gobert with his contract is not a good nba player. You can’t pay a defense only center who can’t catch and punish small-ball lineups 30% of your cap and expect to win at the highest levels of the modern nba. And there does seem to be real chemistry issues with him. Everyone was so focused on blaming Donovan because he had clearly given up—which is fair—that they ignored the real problem with the team. He’s a great guy and good at what he does, but you can’t build around Gobert in the modern nba.

I honestly didn’t think they’d get much considering how bad his contract is going to be in a few years, this trade was Ainge’s masterpiece. It’ll probably go down as the biggest fleece in NBA history, especially if things fall apart in Minny, which I think, they’re going to. Kat is mentally soft, and Anthony Edwards already has a similar relationship to gobert that Mitchell had. And Edwards isn’t half as good of a guy as Mitchell. It’s going to get ugly there.
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Right, I mean all we accomplished with that was the #1 record in the league, even when we had players checking out completely on defense. Terrible results building around Rudy.

The only reason this all fell apart was Mitchell checked out completely on D and froze Gobert out entirely, and Snyder lost the locker room and could not make in game adjustments to save his life. Rudy consistently is who is and rarely wavered. But when we were running our motion offense through the pick and roll with Rudy the offense was historically elite. As soon as it turned into Mitchell hero ball and freeze out Gobert it all went to ****.
 
HermanG said:
DM didnt lose. Garland did.
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The rule is Don never loose, his teamate yes !

Considering Minny, i was on Cy side. Totally tought they will be a top 3-4 at West. Season just start so they can still fgo there but they have to fix many issues. Kat and Edwards seems to have big ego, Dlo not much brain......lot of job to do.
 
fallenchicken said:
Gobert Stan’s will never admit it, but Gobert with his contract is not a good nba player. You can’t pay a defense only center who can’t catch and punish small-ball lineups 30% of your cap and expect to win at the highest levels of the modern nba. And there does seem to be real chemistry issues with him. Everyone was so focused on blaming Donovan because he had clearly given up—which is fair—that they ignored the real problem with the team. He’s a great guy and good at what he does, but you can’t build around Gobert in the modern nba.

I honestly didn’t think they’d get much considering how bad his contract is going to be in a few years, this trade was Ainge’s masterpiece. It’ll probably go down as the biggest fleece in NBA history, especially if things fall apart in Minny, which I think, they’re going to. Kat is mentally soft, and Anthony Edwards already has a similar relationship to gobert that Mitchell had. And Edwards isn’t half as good of a guy as Mitchell. It’s going to get ugly there.
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100% correct.

Nobody should argue with this, but they still will.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LogGrad98 said:
Right, I mean all we accomplished with that was the #1 record in the league, even when we had players checking out completely on defense. Terrible results building around Rudy.

The only reason this all fell apart was Mitchell checked out completely on D and froze Gobert out entirely, and Snyder lost the locker room and could not make in game adjustments to save his life. Rudy consistently is who is and rarely wavered. But when we were running our motion offense through the pick and roll with Rudy the offense was historically elite. As soon as it turned into Mitchell hero ball and freeze out Gobert it all went to ****.
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And then we were totally dismantled with ease by a Clippers team that didn’t even have its best player. The issue with Gobert is that you have to build your entire roster around him to maximize his strengths and to protect his weaknesses. We didn’t have the roster for that. It was never going to work. There might be a roster out there where Gobert could contend, but everything has to be perfect if you’re going to be playing him in the post season.

The good news is Minny’s roster around gobert does not work. It’s more flawed than the jazz last year. I think they’d take back the trade in a heartbeat if they could, but they’re stuck with him for the rest of his contract now. They have to double down and make some changes quick.
 
fallenchicken said:
And then we were totally dismantled with ease by a Clippers team that didn’t even have its best player. The issue with Gobert is that you have to build your entire roster around him to maximize his strengths and to protect his weaknesses. We didn’t have the roster for that. It was never going to work. There might be a roster out there where Gobert could contend, but everything has to be perfect if you’re going to be playing him in the post season.

The good news is Minny’s roster around gobert does not work. It’s more flawed than the jazz last year. I think they’d take back the trade in a heartbeat if they could, but they’re stuck with him for the rest of his contract now. They have to double down and make some changes quick.
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No the issue is you need at least 2 other players to buy into a defensive concept with the physical tools to also play some level of defense. Rudy was the least concern in the clippers series. Conley, Mitchell and Bogey being completely unable or unwilling to play the slightest level of defense was the problem. Gobert can cover for one or 2 people not playing stellar D. He can't cover for 3 or 4. Ridiculous people still believe this fully debunked narrative.
 
fallenchicken said:
And then we were totally dismantled with ease by a Clippers team that didn’t even have its best player. The issue with Gobert is that you have to build your entire roster around him to maximize his strengths and to protect his weaknesses. We didn’t have the roster for that. It was never going to work. There might be a roster out there where Gobert could contend, but everything has to be perfect if you’re going to be playing him in the post season.

The good news is Minny’s roster around gobert does not work. It’s more flawed than the jazz last year. I think they’d take back the trade in a heartbeat if they could, but they’re stuck with him for the rest of his contract now. They have to double down and make some changes quick.
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Minny's roster could not defend the rim or rebound, at all. Gobert solves those issues for them. Without Gobert they would still be sucking mainly because DLO blows this year and ANT is hella overrated. They should be able to play the same on Offense as they did with Vando, except Rudy is a far better player. Having Beasley back might help them, but it is quite clear that Pat Bev is over. All in all however, I think, without Gobert, they would still be sucking and still not rebounding or protecting the rim. Minny is soft as whipped cream. Gobert helps with that, but he cannot solve it.

However, if they swapped DLO for a functioning point, they would be much, much better. Fortunately for us, they do not have the assets anymore to do that.
 
framer said:
Minny's roster could not defend the rim or rebound, at all. Gobert solves those issues for them. Without Gobert they would still be sucking mainly because DLO blows this year and ANT is hella overrated. They should be able to play the same on Offense as they did with Vando, except Rudy is a far better player. Having Beasley back might help them, but it is quite clear that Pat Bev is over. All in all however, I think, without Gobert, they would still be sucking and still not rebounding or protecting the rim. Minny is soft as whipped cream. Gobert helps with that, but he cannot solve it.

However, if they swapped DLO for a functioning point, they would be much, much better. Fortunately for us, they do not have the assets anymore to do that.
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I don't disagree with much of what you said... but they are still a bad rebounding team.

I think most of their issues are because the holdovers are sucking (Dlo in particular) but there are also some fit/style issues. I think Ant/Kat work their way into shape and they end up playing better but if Finch can't get these guys organized and motivated he's in trouble.

McDaniels and Ant were supposed to be better this year... and so far not so much... I think that was baked into a lot of the hype.
 
hgb said:
And we had a) no Conley b) a limping Mitchell and c) (game 6) a broken Rudy. The Clippers series was awful, but I actually felt that was as much injuries as anything. The real tragedy was Dallas.
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Dallas being way harder than it needed to bred the Clippers series. Both series had some serious facepalm.
 
vegas said:
Dallas being way harder than it needed to bred the Clippers series. Both series had some serious facepalm.
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Jingles not being on the roster also hurt us in the Dallas series. The team wasn’t ever the same without him. Then again, he never looked right the entire year. The window of opportunity was open that Clippers year. The window had already closed last year when we didn’t improve our wing position and Jingles aged a few years overnight.

The FO didn’t do us any favors. Instead of drafting Doka and Butler, they could’ve drafted Bane and Herb Jones. At least those picks would’ve been attempts to improve the roster and perhaps offset the zero defensive effort made by most of our roster.
 
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