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Paris under attack

I think what is being called as extremist Islam is actually the misinterpretation of the religion. Because when you say extremism, it offers that you take what is already there and push it to the limit. It's practicing it wrong. Unfortunately there are a lot of terrorist acts and warfare that puts Islam religion in the place of rage and fury, but there are many reasons for that. It definitely is not about a certain religion. Christianity took a lot of lives too for purely religious and land related reasons with Crusades and such and the Arabian culture was superior to them. Was that about the violence back then? Did Saladin Ayyubi think "Man, Christianity is such a violent religion." ? Nope he opened doors and gave freedom and life to the lost Christians. Because it's about civilization. You out their humanity above their religion when the effort is over. ISIS is not born out of magic. Someone created it. Someone is trying to color your sight with the sign of "Islam is violence" notion. Try to stay away from this.

You do understand the difference between things that are happening now and things that happened 1000 years ago, right? At some point, Muslims are responsible for their religion, fair or not. Nobody outside of Islam is going to reform Islam. There is way too much fence straddling, not by the rank and file Muslims, but by the Muslim leadership of nation states. Sharia law is totally incompatible with Western civilization. As long as it is pushed, Islam will always be at odds with Western civilization and there will be conflict. I know that most Muslims don't wish to impose Sharia law, but a LOT do. That is an issue Muslims are going to have to square with themselves and determine where the heart of the religion lies.
 
In all honesty, I think a Beirut bombing not generating as much attention has mainly to do with the perception that the officials in Lebanon both tolerate and secretly support Hezbollah.

edit: I'm neither saying that's fair or valid, just how I think selectivity in the media works.
 
Religious leaders tell you to kill people.

Religious people are not religion's own.

Read the books and make up your own mind.

If there is humanity left in you, then you will find the truth no matter what religion you practice or find it in your seeking of knowledge as an Atheist.

That's all well and good. But forget the fact you're a believer and look at it objectively. Religion is just a human ideology. Someone can create hug-based religion where one faction takes it to the "extreme" and decide that their gods demand they hug everyone they meet. Still, nobody would call those obnoxious huggers "extremists", because to the outside world, nobody cares about what the middle or fringe of the religion is actually like. It is simply about their actions relative to social norms.

I don't believe in Islam, and I consequently don't think the statement "this isn't REALLY what Islam is about" to mean anything. Islam is a man-made ideology, and it is whatever men make of it. There is no ACTUAL truth to judge everyone's practices against. There is only people and their actions.
 
You do understand the difference between things that are happening now and things that happened 1000 years ago, right? At some point, Muslims are responsible for their religion, fair or not. Nobody outside of Islam is going to reform Islam. There is way too much fence straddling, not by the rank and file Muslims, but by the Muslim leadership of nation states. Sharia law is totally incompatible with Western civilization. As long as it is pushed, Islam will always be at odds with Western civilization and there will be conflict. I know that most Muslims don't wish to impose Sharia law, but a LOT do. That is an issue Muslims are going to have to square with themselves and determine where the heart of the religion lies.

I cannot begin to describe how much I would desire this to happen. And as a sand in history's hourglass, I will probably fail to see it happen, but it will happen one day.

I'm just saying that stay away from the propaganda that generalizes the entire religion and its entire people into violence image. There might appear a lot of violent news, but you don't see us peaceful people in the news. Don't forget that. Don't taste the hatred building medicine they are giving to the world.
 
What an absolute ****fest of a massacre in Paris. Pretty ****ing horrible seeing some of the videos floating out there on the internets.

This enemy of ours that we ALL have is the equivalent of a Nazi Kamikaze. The worst of the worst. An enemy so committed to his or her cause that after they are done doing their collective killing, they are willing to blow themselves up leaving us with no legal recourse and no psychological closure. And since many of them function in the old and tried method of the clandestine cell, it's extremely difficult to stop them, especially when the members are NOT foreign born. To complicate matters, they don't function on a traditional timeline and are willing to wait years if need be. This is asymmetrical warfare in the most clear cut definition. Bombing strategic spots in Syria won't do anything, well, not in the long term. I mean, you kill the head of this perceived snake and a new head grows and grows and grows.

I think most that are arguing in this thread that there are no connections to the Syrian refugees are mostly correct but at least one of the terrorists, currently being reported, came through WITH the refugees. I think what's troublesome is the demographics of the refugees. Historically, most refugees have been women, children and the elderly, as most men stay to fight but in this current crisis, there are many men of fighting age coming over. And as we can see, it can only take one man to wreak havoc on a populace. ISIL is supremely intelligent and to think otherwise is naive.

Yes, I definitely agree that ISIL is fighting for the minds of the moderate Muslims which makes complete sense. We do ourselves no benefit when via social media we rally as a world when westerners are killed but barely bat an eye when horrific massacres happen in the Middle East. We mustn't forget that most of the casualties of this current Islamic terrorism have been Muslim folk. It only takes a handful of folks to carry out wanton violence.

In regards to the attacks, the sitting duck aspect is horrifying. It reminded me immediately of the Charlie Hebdo attack and that video of the police officer laying on his back pleading for his life as the terrorist killed him. That poor dude did not have a fighting chance and that's inexcusable. What's also troublesome, at least in my opinion, is that there are many reports that the terrorists in the Bataclan reloaded their weapons. A few seconds of respite from mayhem and no one tried to fight back? This is NOT a condemnation of the victims but a commentary on the larger picture of the world. We are living during such a peaceful time, that most, except, of course those that have served, have no concept of war or it's trappings. We have no reference to the smell of death. This is a great thing in of itself, as this is what countries strive for, the possibility of their citizens living in a peaceful world, but does it affect us in the negative during these types of situations? If your death is the ONLY outcome than anything you do is a positive. Granted, the probability of being involved in one of these types of attacks is very small but if you or I or someone we love is involved we can only hope we have the mindset of those Americans on United 93.

I don't know what the long game is with this current "war." But I don't think I'm alone in thinking that our involvement in the Middle East hasn't really benefitted us or that area. If anything, I think things are worse but who knows.

Man, poor folks.
 
This enemy of ours that we ALL have is the equivalent of a Nazi Kamikaze. The worst of the worst. An enemy so committed to his or her cause that after they are done doing their collective killing, they are willing to blow themselves up leaving us with no legal recourse and no psychological closure.

It is pretty telling when EVERYONE is against you.

America and Russia
Iran and Israel
Anonymous and Gov. hackers
Syria and Saudi Arabia
Turkey and Kurds
Even other terrorist groups want you dead
 
quite a while back I listened to a very interesting podcast about the "dark web" - - and bitcoin and what-not and how all sorts of criminal elements are using it to procure and/or distribute drugs and weapons
(I'll edit in a link if I can find it)

edit: KCRW (from Santa Monica, CA) podcast of "To The Point from Aug 21, 2013 "The Dark Side of the Cloud"
https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/to-the-point/the-dark-side-of-the-internet-anonymity-after-all


(actually there was also a separate podcast a few months later about bitcoin that was also interesting)

I have some experience with deep web markets. Well over 90% of transactions (at least in the United States) are for controlled substances. The majority of the rest is for low-level fraud (things like pirated memberships to porn sites). The hardest part is actually buying bitcoin (this is a pain in the *** if you've ever tried).

Guns, frankly, are too hard to ship to get significant volume from deep web markets. When you're talking about organized operation I have doubts that terrorist organizations are using open markets to conduct their business.

You do understand the difference between things that are happening now and things that happened 1000 years ago, right? At some point, Muslims are responsible for their religion, fair or not. Nobody outside of Islam is going to reform Islam. There is way too much fence straddling, not by the rank and file Muslims, but by the Muslim leadership of nation states. Sharia law is totally incompatible with Western civilization. As long as it is pushed, Islam will always be at odds with Western civilization and there will be conflict. I know that most Muslims don't wish to impose Sharia law, but a LOT do. That is an issue Muslims are going to have to square with themselves and determine where the heart of the religion lies.

I think this is where people get confused: this is a state issue more than a religious issue. The attack on Turkey should be instructive. Turkey is a true oddity on the globe. It is a country where 98% of the population is islamic (obviously a much lower rate are true believers) but it's baked into the national culture that there is true separation of church and state. As a result, it has no state religion and intolerant behavior towards minorities is essentially taboo in the political culture.

It's a free society that, in my ways, is more European than Middle-Eastern despite having a strong demographic resemblance to the middle east. They are attacked not because they are a different culture in religious terms (they are not) or because the attackers think of them as foreign invaders (they are not). They are a target precisely because they allow, by and large, freedom of expression and ideas that are not permitted by a cultural viewpoint that treats its religion as entirely serious and beyond any question or satire. The "war" the West will ultimately have to win is freedom of speech rather than destruction of religious ideals. Satire is going to be the weapon that, when it reaches the public, will ultimately be the death knell of radical Islamism.
 
The "war" the West will ultimately have to win is freedom of speech rather than destruction of religious ideals. Satire is going to be the weapon that, when it reaches the public, will ultimately be the death knell of radical Islamism.

Can you be more specific here? This sounds too esoteric to make sense to me.
 
Can you be more specific here? This sounds too esoteric to make sense to me.

*Obvious punchline*

When Syria becomes a place where a citizen can successfully petition to wear a pasta strainer on their head for "religious reasons," then ISIL/ISIS is effectively dead.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...etti-monster-massachusetts-religion/75862946/

Ideas are powerful. Funny ideas are attractive. You win ideological wars with ideas. There's a reason the targets are more cultural targets than government or military oriented.
 
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