Per 36 of the C4 and projections.

[fishonjazz]

Not the same thing we're talking about, but in 90-91 Run TMC on the Warriors each averaged at least 22.9 PPG.

I loved tim hardaway......one of my favorite players of all time.

 

[b_line]

Pretty much every model outside of drafting a superstar is an outlier. We have to try what we have the best shot at accomplishing.

How long did Stockton and Malone have to wait before actually competing for a Championship? 10+ years of being together, right? **** doesn't happen overnight.

It was like seven years together for them to be considered contenders, and more than ten years for them to reach the finals. If they would have had another you g guy to grow with, it might have been a little sooner, but not much.
The only reason the teams become contenders so quickly now (okc) is because the generation before them was terrible. They had a few great players, but nothing like the 90's. also, teams are harder to keep intact these days.

 

[orangello]

I'd point out that the "Detroit" model is more of an outlier than the "OKC" model.

 

[b_line]

I'd point out that the "Detroit" model is more of an outlier than the "OKC" model.

Why? There are way more good players in the league than there are superstars, so it is more conceivable to be successful at being like Detroit than any other champion. Also, what about the celtics? They lacked a true superstar in their championship run as well. Garnett is just a more sane sheed. Pierce is better than rip or prince, but he is not Kobe or lebron.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'd point out that the "Detroit" model is more of an outlier than the "OKC" model.

No ****, drafting a super-star isn't an outlier at all.

Spurs - drafted Duncan
Lakers - drafted Kobe
Bulls - drafted Jordan
Mavs - drafted Dirk

That is what, 75% of your champions over the past 20 years? It's the hardest model to do though because it relies completely on luck to get the initial star, then be able to surround him with supporting talent.

If you want to win without drafting a star you have to sign/trade for stars (Boston, Clippers, Heat). The Jazz have 0 chance of doing that model. I guess this goes to the Heat, Boston, and partially to the Lakers for Shaq.

The Jazz have to pretty much make their own model, which is part Pistons (all 5 guys being equally important) and part Thunder (mostly drafted talent).

 

[BYE]

Don't forget that these are per 36 numbers, so I can absolutely see them going up to these per 36. The question is whether they will play even close to 36 minutes. If you were to run a search for teams that have had multiple players scoring over 17 or 15 per 36, I bet you would find that it's not that uncommon. The problem is that there's a vast difference between actual and projected. I would be very happy if Favors would stop getting a million fouls and TO's!

 

[spycam1]

No ****, drafting a super-star isn't an outlier at all.

Spurs - drafted Duncan
Lakers - drafted Kobe
Bulls - drafted Jordan
Mavs - drafted Dirk

That is what, 75% of your champions over the past 20 years? It's the hardest model to do though because it relies completely on luck to get the initial star, then be able to surround him with supporting talent.

If you want to win without drafting a star you have to sign/trade for stars (Boston, Clippers, Heat). The Jazz have 0 chance of doing that model. I guess this goes to the Heat, Boston, and partially to the Lakers for Shaq.

The Jazz have to pretty much make their own model, which is part Pistons (all 5 guys being equally important) and part Thunder (mostly drafted talent).

Good summary.

 

[akirac73]

Searched the Piston's 00's teams because that was the only one I could think of having a chance off the top of my head. Came really close 2 years to having 4 above 15, but never did it.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2005.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2006.html

2006-07 Phoenix Suns: Had 4 players average over 17ppg (Stoudemire, Nash, Barbosa, Marion)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2007.html

In 2004-05 Phoenix nearly had all 5 starters average 15ppg or more. Quintin Richardson finished the season at 14.9ppg.

 

[Qman]

No ****, drafting a super-star isn't an outlier at all.

Spurs - drafted Duncan
Lakers - drafted Kobe
Bulls - drafted Jordan
Mavs - drafted Dirk

That is what, 75% of your champions over the past 20 years? It's the hardest model to do though because it relies completely on luck to get the initial star, then be able to surround him with supporting talent.

If you want to win without drafting a star you have to sign/trade for stars (Boston, Clippers, Heat). The Jazz have 0 chance of doing that model. I guess this goes to the Heat, Boston, and partially to the Lakers for Shaq.

The Jazz have to pretty much make their own model, which is part Pistons (all 5 guys being equally important) and part Thunder (mostly drafted talent).

This is a great post but we need to find a team identity. The Piston's played great and created shots for Rip and Billups.

Right now we are post up team. Al on the left block and Paul on the right. Kanter fits this model but Favors doesn't really. Hayward can function in an offense like this and so can Burks but they are more effective in other offensive sets.

Burks and Hayward thrive in the open court. Favors is an excellent finisher too. Kanter looks like he could learn.

The thing I worry about with our 4 young guys is we don't have someone to handle big wings-(Pierce,Durant, etc.) Burks and Hayward hasn't shown the ability to get that done. So is Burks playing PG something we are going to do a lot? At the end of games?

Or acknowledge that Gordon and Burks are 2's? And move one of them? Or just make one the permanent 6th man.

I think Kanter and Favors can play together effectively.

 

[Frankly Jazz]

Kanter will average more than 20 a game in a few years. Combine that with Favors defense. Hayward's all around game and Alex's ability to get to the hoop. Add 1 or 2 more players through trade or draft this team could get really good.

 

[b_line]

Kanter will average more than 20 a game in a few years. Combine that with Favors defense. Hayward's all around game and Alex's ability to get to the hoop. Add 1 or 2 more players through trade or draft this team could get really good.

so you think Kanter is going to be the centerpeice of this team?

 

[vegas]

I think it's worth noting that Favors exceeded his per 36 tonight in 38 min. 17,15,3,3