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Perhaps this is the defining moment for Hayward

HighlandHomie said:
I'm grasping for straws here. Shocker00 and you both obviously make really strong points - but since he's barely 25 I'm still holding on a shred of hope that a 'basketball revelation' was still in line for him. We'll see... a pissed off Hayward would be just what this squad needs!
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He is only 25 true. There still is a chance. I haven't completely given up on him. I just have been getting less impressed with him as his career progresses. I hope and pray he does find the fire in him to be a true leader.
We are kind of screwed if he doesn't.
 
Revolution 9 said:
He is only 25 true. There still is a chance. I haven't completely given up on him. I just have been getting less impressed with him as his career progresses. I hope and pray he does find the fire in him to be a true leader.
We are kind of screwed if he doesn't.
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More emphasis on screwed, less on kind of.
 
Shocker00 said:
Hayward's defining moment was last year and he failed, this year it is Burks and Kanters defining moment. Hayward lacks toughness and aggression that he needs to be a leader on the court.


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Has Favors defining moment already taken place or do we have the pleasure of looking forward to it still?
 
Hayward will be better than whatever he was last year. You seek toughness in him but toughness is not the best transformation for everyone. Some players need to ease off. And Hayward had a big burden on his back last year so he will play better this year as he feels less burden. Feeling of being overburdened holds some players back from what they can actually do.
 
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addictionary said:
Hayward will be better than whatever he was last year. You seek toughness in him but toughness is not the best transformation for everyone. Some players need to ease off. And Hayward had a big burden on his back last year so he will play better this year as he feels less burden. Feeling of being overburdened holds some players back from what they can actually do.
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I'm pulling for Hayward to be a perennial All-Star. I've always been a huge fan since we drafted him. I agree that he'll be better this year just because he's another year older/stronger and won't feel as pressured to be the man during a tank season. Just my gut feeling that him playing with more of a nasty streak will help him take a huge step forward in terms of being a player to be reckoned with in this league.
 
HighlandHomie said:
I'm pulling for Hayward to be a perennial All-Star. I've always been a huge fan since we drafted him. I agree that he'll be better this year just because he's another year older/stronger and won't feel as pressured to be the man during a tank season. Just my gut feeling that him playing with more of a nasty streak will help him take a huge step forward in terms of being a player to be reckoned with in this league.
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Nasty Hayward > Calm Hayward
 
Name the last soft player that magically turned into a hard nosed tough player. Either you are that kind of player or you are not. You don't just turn into a kind of player that rises under pressure. Hayward has shown that he is a good player that better not be your leader. He also better not be the guy you rely on to bring emotion to the court. He is not nor will ever be that kind of player.
 
Especially this far into his career. He's shown no signs of being that kind of player. I've seen Favors, Kanter, Alec and Trey all show that quality more than Hayward. You might as well start hoping for one of them to become the guy you all want Hayward to be, because he's not.
 
gregbroncs said:
Name the last soft player that magically turned into a hard nosed tough player. Either you are that kind of player or you are not. You don't just turn into a kind of player that rises under pressure. Hayward has shown that he is a good player that better not be your leader. He also better not be the guy you rely on to bring emotion to the court. He is not nor will ever be that kind of player.
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I can't help but wonder how you all are defining soft. I suspect that a significant portion of the definition has to do with outward shows of emotion, such as primal screams, jumping up and down the court while tugging outward on one's jersey, and so forth. Are we talking about actual characteristics of toughness (however it's defined) or stereotypical ones? Just curious.

Some years ago I read a book about the US Special Forces. The author was a journalist, and he noted that one thing he found unexpected was how the Special Forces soldiers were so often relatively soft spoken and unassuming, far from the outward macho posturing he expected to observe. I can't recall which book it was, sorry, but I do remember this, because it stood out to me when I was reading it. For what it's worth.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
I can't help but wonder how you all are defining soft. I suspect that a significant portion of the definition has to do with outward shows of emotion, such as primal screams, jumping up and down the court while tugging outward on one's jersey, and so forth. Are we talking about actual characteristics of toughness (however it's defined) or stereotypical ones? Just curious.
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A little of both. If he's going to be the leader of the team he needs to show some outward signs of positive emotion. But a lot of it is the constant hanging of his head after a missed shot or a turnover on his part. He seems to show negative emotion and not positive emotion. That is not good for the overall emotion of the team. When the see the leader make a big play he takes it in stride, which would be okay. But they he makes a bad play and hangs his head and mopes back up the floor.
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Also not being physical on either end of the floor. He can be guarded by PG's in the post because he's afraid to use his size advantage to move them out of the way. His height and weight should be an advantage at SG but he doesn't use it.
 
gregbroncs said:
A little of both. If he's going to be the leader of the team he needs to show some outward signs of positive emotion. But a lot of it is the constant hanging of his head after a missed shot or a turnover on his part. He seems to show negative emotion and not positive emotion. That is not good for the overall emotion of the team. When the see the leader make a big play he takes it in stride, which would be okay. But they he makes a bad play and hangs his head and mopes back up the floor.
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Also not being physical on either end of the floor. He can be guarded by PG's in the post because he's afraid to use his size advantage to move them out of the way. His height and weight should be an advantage at SG but he doesn't use it.
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I disagree with the argument that toughness involves shows of emotion; in fact, I can easily think of a number of scenarios where shows of emotion are contrary to toughness and leadership. The rest of it makes more sense to me, if true (and it might well be).
 
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