And the fact that the Presidents team negotiated the deal for the sequester back in 11.
Pissing Match
- Thread starter Scat
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And the fact that the Presidents team negotiated the deal for the sequester back in 11.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Nobody is denying the president agreed to it. We all know he signed off on it at the last minute after extensive negotiations.
The question is, who was forced into taking what they didn't want?
Boehner said he got what he wanted. Obama said he didn't.
To me, this is a no brainer.
If politifact wants to say it was mostly false (not entirely false, mind you) just because Woodward's book says otherwise, and the fact that Obama actually signed off on the deal, that's on them. It's hardly "proof" though.
Boehner saying it's what he wanted is pretty conclusive.
Good to know that the mighty fact check sites only matter if they say soemthing you want them to say.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
No, that's not it. If they had said it was Obama's idea and had some proof, I'd probably accept it.
As it stands, they're basically saying, "This Woodward guy's book says it was Obama's idea. And we know Obama had to agree to it because he signed off on it. So without saying his claim that it was Congress's idea was totally bunk, well say he's not totally off the hook either."
Boehner flat out said it was what he wanted. Obama said many times that he did not want it, and it would never actually happen.
It has nothing to do with them saying something I want them to say. It's just me looking at everything and it not being hard to figure out.
So far, the only "evidence" that it was Obama's baby (scat's words) is Woodward 's book. And there are a bunch of outlets making the claim, but citing his book as their source.
If we're going to be honest, the honest part is that almost every Republican has signed a pledge not to increase taxes, and they were not called out on that pledge, because they did not increase taxes. It would be political suicide for them to do so.
If we're being honest, all these Republicans will go back to their constituencies in 2014 and say they did not raise taxes.
You know, just to keep things honest.
Again, being honest, it was a desperation ploy on the part of the White House to avoid default. So, it was Obama's idea, but adopted by the Republicans. The responsibility is shared, but the Republicans are the driving force behind the sequester.
There is a difference between saying POTUS wanted the sequester and saying it was the White House's idea. The latter is true.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
What about saying it's "Obama's baby" would you say that's true?
In the sense that a woman who gives birth has a baby, even if someone else adopts it.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
We'll have to just disagree on that one. I've seen Obama say plenty of times that this sequester would never actually happen. I've also seen him say it wasn't his idea.
Where are you getting your info from?
Among other things, mainstream media newscasts. Also, saying it came from the White House does not mean Obama, personally, is the originator.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Okay well I guess there could possibly be some technicality like that. However, Obama did flat out say it came from congress during that presidential debate.
Agree with this sentiment but not the spin and had to hold your feet to the fire a little. Taxes raised from last year plain and simple, and why would we take these politicians at their word anyway.
Again agreed, and I don't need any sourcing to do so. I don't care if Obama proposed it on national television, it sprang out of the republican party.
A politician lying during a debate? Oh my stars and garters.
I'm not going to let my preference for Democratic policies (yuck!) over Republican (YUCK!) blind me to who they are.
No complaints on my part.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I'm not blind to who they are either. I just haven't seen anyone besides Woodward (and various others referencing his claim) claim that it was actually Obama's idea. And I have seen Obama say it wasn't his idea but congress's, and I have seen Boehner say it's what he wanted.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
FYI my right leaning friends, yesterday the Senate republicans filibustered the democrat plan to avoid the sequester. The plan included a mix of spending cuts and tax increases.
As I have been saying, the sticking point is not spending cuts, it's the tax increases.
Something really needs to be done about that filibuster rule.
As I have been saying, the sticking point is not spending cuts, it's the tax increases.
Something really needs to be done about that filibuster rule.
I think they are both sticking points. The repubs do not want tax increase and they want the spending cuts.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
And the dems want spending cuts and also a tax increase.
The republicans didn't filibuster that bill yesterday because they hated the spending cuts in it, Iol. And the dems didn't get 51 senators to agree to vote for it (before it was filibustered) because they were against the spending cuts in it.
Clearly, the sticking point is the increase in revenue the dems are insisting on, and the repubs are refusing to consider.
You keep right on believing that hype.