D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Hahahaha wait. I need to re-read this:
pls explain to me why it was more likely for DeRozan to have a jump in performance than it is for Hayward to have a similar jump.
Predict Gordon Hayward's contract structure thread
- Thread starter franklin
- Start date
Hahahaha wait. I need to re-read this:
pls explain to me why it was more likely for DeRozan to have a jump in performance than it is for Hayward to have a similar jump.
MVP
Well-Known Member
All is true except that very few expected it our of DeRozan. Numerous people in Raptors organization saw it coming. Dude is gym rat and works on his game more than anybody else. It was obvious that he will improve purely on talent level, commitment and work he is putting into. Hayward is way behind when it comes to those qualities.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Ok, I will summarize:
1. Better natural athletic ability. 2.Better work ethic. 3.Bigger heart/balls - alpha dog mentality.
![[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]](/data/avatars/m/2/2497.jpg?1511131091){kind=avatar}
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]
Well-Known Member
Here's my growing problem with Hayward and the composition of this team:
I don't think you can be successful with two guards/wings who stop the ball, even for a second, and survey. I want one guy surveying, and the other two knowing immediately if they should pass, shoot, or drive. The ball should keep moving. Hay, Burke, and Burks are all prone to surveying. (And then, our bigs can be ball-stoppers, too).
A lot of this can be corrected by coaching. But, if I were the coach, I'd have Hayward playing off-ball; I'd take a lot of the surveying away from him and put him in position to immediately shoot, pass, or play in a secondary PnR. Paying a guy like that what franklin is predicting: scary.
I don't think you can be successful with two guards/wings who stop the ball, even for a second, and survey. I want one guy surveying, and the other two knowing immediately if they should pass, shoot, or drive. The ball should keep moving. Hay, Burke, and Burks are all prone to surveying. (And then, our bigs can be ball-stoppers, too).
A lot of this can be corrected by coaching. But, if I were the coach, I'd have Hayward playing off-ball; I'd take a lot of the surveying away from him and put him in position to immediately shoot, pass, or play in a secondary PnR. Paying a guy like that what franklin is predicting: scary.
sojodave
Well-Known Member
DL said in an interview that small market teams can not over pay max players unless they deserve it. Clearly, Hayward does not deserve a max contract. His shooting percentage has declined each year, his assist will go down as Trey gets more of the ball handling responsibilities and he's definitely not a number one option. We can't afford to pay him the max. I'm just grateful it's not possible to pay as long a contract as AK got. Please DL, keep your word and don't over pay him!
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Derozan is still inefficient btw.
30 percent from 3, 42 from the field.
Alec Burks is much better in both categories
jope
Well-Known Member
Or his assists will stay the same or increase, even with less usage, when we have more players that can make shots.
See what I did there?
Sent from the JazzFanz app
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Good point, jope.
I agree Hayward is NOT a MAX player. And he won't get a MAX contract. If he's offered one, Jazz would have to make a difficult, but correct decision to let him go.
It was clear Hayward was pressing, trying to do too much. And Corbin was letting the burden fall on his shoulders. Ty's offense has relied on one player being "the man." I don't think he knows how to coach any other way. While Hayward's % has dropped, he's improved in other areas such as rebounding. I think his percentage goes back up if/when Trey and/or Burks takes on more of the playmaking role. Better efficiency, better shooting percentage and maybe averages of 18/4/4. That's worth quite a lot.
I agree Hayward is NOT a MAX player. And he won't get a MAX contract. If he's offered one, Jazz would have to make a difficult, but correct decision to let him go.
It was clear Hayward was pressing, trying to do too much. And Corbin was letting the burden fall on his shoulders. Ty's offense has relied on one player being "the man." I don't think he knows how to coach any other way. While Hayward's % has dropped, he's improved in other areas such as rebounding. I think his percentage goes back up if/when Trey and/or Burks takes on more of the playmaking role. Better efficiency, better shooting percentage and maybe averages of 18/4/4. That's worth quite a lot.
MVP
Well-Known Member
42.9%. And he gets to the ft line a lot to offset that. In fact he was leading all players in FT attempts in first round of playoffs.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Agree. The higher cap makes it easier for teams to pay more for Hayward. If the Jazz design his contract (vs. matching an offer sheet), it may look like Favors', where the value is higher in the first and last years of the deal.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
I agree, less playmaking responsibility will improve Haywards efficiency, but I also think we need LESS rebounds out of Hayward as well. We have big men that should be able to pick up the slack there. IMO, Hayward is at his best in transition/open court, he needs to get out and run instead of trying to get rebounds. His shooting percentage will go up, maybe his confidence as well. It's weird, from what I've seen over the years, Hayward in the open court has an aggressive/killer-instinct mentality (both offensively and defensively), but in a half court setting he's passive and seems unsure of himself.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I think the rebound rate was something he has been criticized on in the past. Sometimes it's the old "damned if you do, damned if you don't" adage. Paul George gets a lot of rebounds, so why can't Gordon average 5-6/per game? I agree with you. Utah has young legs and athletic players. Favors, Hayward and Burks can get up and down the court. Jazz NEED to run!
sahlensguy
Well-Known Member
I think making Wet Willie the highest paid player sends the wrong message to the team.
Never said you did. Was just letting you know your AKMVP name and pic of AK to go along with your talk about not overpaying for Hayward gives me the giggles.
Nothing against you or AK. I really liked AK and think he was/is a one of a kind player and seemed to be like a decent guy, but he was grossly overpaid for what he ended up giving the team, whatever the reasons. I really wish he would have turned into the perennial all star we all thought he could be, but it didn't play out that way.
Back to the point, AKMVP talking about bad contracts is like rain on your wedding day, good advice that you just didn't take, a free ride when you've already paid, a traffic jam when you're already late.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
I'll admit, I was one of those that thought he should rebound more like PG. However, after seeing him struggle taking on the lead role of the team, I think we need to limit what we ask/expect him to do so he can do more of the things he's good at.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I doubt he gets a contract => Favors. Bigs always get paid more. On the other hand, since Derrick had an underwhelming season, Hayward's agents have more ammunition to demand at least equal pay.
gomretat
Well-Known Member
1) I doubt the Jazz will make any offer until Gordo narrows in on an offer. Going first just gives GH bargaining power to use with other teams which makes no sense when you are the team with the final say. GH will not sign anything with us until he has explored every option.
2) Like it or not salaries of young uns are just like the draft - all based upon the nebulous notion of potential. GH will be paid based upon what other teams with cap space think he can produce. His historical stats are only one of the inputs.
3) It sounds like there are multiple teams with cap space that think GH can be a significant contributor.
2) Like it or not salaries of young uns are just like the draft - all based upon the nebulous notion of potential. GH will be paid based upon what other teams with cap space think he can produce. His historical stats are only one of the inputs.
3) It sounds like there are multiple teams with cap space that think GH can be a significant contributor.
Doublea
Well-Known Member
I thought Favors had a pretty good season.. showed a lot of improvement and he's still like 22 years old.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Decent, but it wasn't like he was a defensive beast/shot-blocker or had an offensive explosion. In many ways, you could argue Hayward's numbers were comparable, adjusted for their positions. If I were Gordon's agent, I would definitely bring Favors' stats and new contract into the discussion as ammo for justifying the same contract terms for Hayward.
friendsinmyhead
Member
I believe that GH will get an offer at 12+M per year, I also believe/hope the Jazz pass on matching. I do not hate GH I just do not see what others see in him. Every year that he has been with us he starts out slow and he does not have a killer instinct (my opinion). I think he would be strong roll player and should get 9-9.5 per year from the Jazz.