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Pres. Of Baskettball Operations Says Interesting Things About Draft, Tomic, and Neto...

Sexual Favors said:
Kanter is a prospect that probably needs twice as much time as most, and since he is so young, and our team isn't contending for the title anytime soon, what is the rush?
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1. He'll be a free agent in a year. Decisions will have to be made soon.

2. As previously stated, you need elite talent to be a contender. I don't think it's likely you get that from Enes, or from the other young talent on the team. If you can turn Enes into an asset that has a better chance at becoming that requisite talent, you pull the trigger.
 
Also i think the jazz coaching staff (not just corbin) had about as low bbiq as you could find on any team.... combined with kanter low bbiq. There is nowhere to go but up for his bbiq.
It cant get any worse right.

I wonder if a guy who is considered to have high bbiq (like say boris diaw) played on that jazz team last year, if he would look as smart as he does on the spurs.

Maybe he would and coaching/teammates/experience really doesnt matter. If you have it, it will show
 
fishonjazz said:
And i would love to see you take your blinders off and get your head out of the sand...... Once you get a thought in your head i have noticed that you refuse to look at any other possibilities than your possibility.

You saw kanter play last season and determined that he is garbage and we should get rid of him. I am open to that being a possibility.

I am also open to the possibility that the kanter we saw last year might be MUCH different from the kanter that we see in the future due to coaching change, scheme changes, a change in his role, a more consistent role, a healthy offseason, better teammates, more maturity, more experience etc etc etc.

Maybe kanter will never be very good. There is a definate chance of that. It would be nice if you would listen just a little bit to your fellow jazzfanz though as well and just consider the fact that you might actually be wrong for the first time in your life.
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Kanter's teammates were better when he was on the bench than when he was in the game. Only Lucas and Tinsley has a worse on court rating than Kanter. The Jazz as a whole played their best ball with Kanter on the bench. The best the Jazz played with a certain player on the bench other than Kanter was Jefferson, at -4.8 (I believe it's points per 100 possessions). Kanter was -2.8. Jazz were outscored by three points per 100 possessions with Kanter on the bench. On the court, they were outscored by eleven points per 100 possessions. No one on the team that played any significant minutes came even close to that. Only Tinsley had a worse comparison. Even Lucas' on/off court split was better.

That alone shows that all the other Jazz players needed a better teammate than Kanter, not the other way around. They also had the same coach and scheme. "A more consistent role" is completely hogwash. No one on the Spurs has a "consistent" role. Popovich plays with those guys' minutes all the time. Look at Boris Diaw. Here's a five game stretch of minutes, 30:34, 19:03, 16:07, 11:10 29:53 with one start. I guess pampering and babying Kanter with "consistent" minutes may work, but such a thing doesn't really exist.

He's got time since of the non basketball factors, but he must improve his basketball IQ. That's his biggest factor. He's only above average on offense and rebounding if he's in tremendous shape and has a motor, both of which came into question this year that really shouldn't have been excused by the shoulder. More minutes isn't going to magically fix that. People play years in the league and don't understand the game well enough, have the tools, but are still out of the league by age 30 'cause they can't physically dominate anymore and have no idea how to play in a team system to keep them in the league.

Your posts seem to imply that you want to baby him. Give him minutes, encourage him, say "it's ok, keep trying" when he makes mistakes on the floor that are truly boneheaded. I have doubts that will work for Kanter.
 
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GVC said:
1. He'll be a free agent in a year. Decisions will have to be made soon.

2. As previously stated, you need elite talent to be a contender. I don't think it's likely you get that from Enes, or from the other young talent on the team. If you can turn Enes into an asset that has a better chance at becoming that requisite talent, you pull the trigger.
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To your first point. Yes, he will be a free agent next year. And this is why there were those of us clamoring for Corbin to play and develop him, so we'd know his value. You've been in the camp that "but his play doesn't merit it," and that's been the issue. With Paul and Al, Corbin couldn't play him, and I supported that. But, our FO has always known Kanter was a project in every sense of the word. They knew it would take time before he could absorb basketball knowledge and start applying it. Both parties have been in a hard spot. The Jazz had good players in Paul and Al and tough decisions to make. And Kanter needed coaching and development. The jazz chose to blow up the team to allow for his and the other young kids' development, so why bail after one year? He has a whole upcoming season before he hits RFA. I doubt the Jazz expected to see everything they were going to see from him the first season he saw real minutes, in a less than ideal team full of other plays in similar situations, a coach on the last year of his contract, and missing an offseason due to his shoulder. I'm sure they thought about their situation.


I agree with the "If you can turn Enes into an asset that has a better chance at becoming that requisite talent, you pull the trigger." But where is that deal? He's approaching the final year of his rookie deal. He's coming off a season that exposed his weaknesses more than they exposed his strength's. As Jazz fans, we've seen more, know more, etc. other teams aren't going to see as much value in him as he is worth. His potential is still intact. He just barely turned 22 last week. He has little coaching, but he has great touch, instinct for offensive rebounding, size, ability to run, stretch the floor, post up, etc. why should we be looking to sell low? A prospect like him would go in the top 7 of this draft easily. We also know he has good character and work ethic , and a desire to be here. Kanter has elite talent, but hasn't put it together yet, mostly because he hasn't had the time to put it together.
 
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Darkwing Duck said:
Your posts seem to imply that you want to baby him. Give him minutes, encourage him, say "it's ok, keep trying" when he makes mistakes on the floor that are truly boneheaded. I have doubts that will work for Kanter.
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Sorry to imply that..... but what i actually want is to see what kanter can do if works his butt off this offseason and plays on a team that is trying to win with a coahing staff that works with him on his bbiq
 
Darkwing Duck said:
I have yet to see that in this thread, though.
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green said:
Kanter is the new CJ Miles. Lol.

Some of us don't really like. Others of you think "if he could only get minutes, he'd be an all star."

Lol
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Vermin said:
I'm always on the trade Kanter train.
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There is quite a bit more in here as well, but searching through it is futile.

Trading Kanter just to trade him?

Comparing Kanter to CJ Miles?

Both are irrational.

I remember quite a bit more as well. Maybe you struggle reading these threads? This is the second time you've incorrectly accused me of responding to things out of thin air.
 
GVC said:
What?

SF said Gordo had good lateral quickness, I disagreed. He asked me for proof beyond what I see watching games, I pointed to his pre-draft combine numbers.

Also, those numbers you posted are not lane agility numbers.
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What lane agility score did Hayward have then? I'm only seeing one agility score on these charts and they are as follows:

Hayward 11.73
McDermott 11.10
Jimmer 10.42
 
franklin said:
You mean like Roger, Josh, Randy, Al, Devin, Mo, Richard, Marvin, & CJ?
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Haha. Good post.

I liked Al, Marvin, and Randy though. Not really how they were used though.

Anyways, there is a difference. A lot of those weren't core pieces, but a lot of them were played like they were. That pissed everyone off, because Utah became this self esteem camp for the league's aging players, instead of a team trying to angle its way towards the title.
 
franklin said:
You mean like Roger, Josh, Randy, Al, Devin, Mo, Richard, Marvin, & CJ?
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There is truth here.
I hated on howard, bell, and richard alot.... unjustly alot of the time. Partly cause they were one year rentals and we all knew it... and they were guys, that if they were on other teams, wouldnt play much at all but were starters for us
 
I liked the trade for Marvin; thought it was very little risk with potentially high reward.
Also remember some idiot poster named MoTown who thought Williams would be a great acquisition for Utah. That guy should be hunted down and pilloried in front of the ESA.
 
Sexual Favors said:
There is quite a bit more in here as well, but searching through it is futile.

Trading Kanter just to trade him?

Comparing Kanter to CJ Miles?

Both are irrational.

I remember quite a bit more as well. Maybe you struggle reading these threads? This is the second time you've incorrectly accused me of responding to things out of thin air.
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Context on those two. Miles/Kanter comparison is based on Jazzfanz view of them, not basketball ability necessarily.

Trading Kanter just to trade him? Or one thinks perceived value far outweighs actual value. Either way, Vermin's an idiot anyway, so I don't read anything he posts.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Context on those two. Miles/Kanter comparison is based on Jazzfanz view of them, not basketball ability necessarily.

Trading Kanter just to trade him? Or one thinks perceived value far outweighs actual value. Either way, Vermin's an idiot anyway, so I don't read anything he posts.
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I'll grant you context w/ Green.

Vermin's was irrational, which proves my point. There are others as well, but I am not going to search back anymore to prove a point I've already proved.
 
Jazz4ever said:
What lane agility score did Hayward have then? I'm only seeing one agility score on these charts and they are as follows:

Hayward 11.73
McDermott 11.10
Jimmer 10.42
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Sorry, I was actually looking at different numbers. Those are the right numbers.

And I agree that these numbers aren't anywhere close to a good measure of lateral quickness OR defensive ability. I still don't see a player with great lateral quickness or overall athleticism at the 2 in Gordo. I don't see him turning into an elite perimeter defender (or a guy who can effectively attack the rim off the bounce).
 
fishonjazz said:
There is truth here.
I hated on howard, bell, and richard alot.... unjustly alot of the time. Partly cause they were one year rentals and we all knew it... and they were guys, that if they were on other teams, wouldnt play much at all but were starters for us
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This post exemplifies the winning requirement Jazz fans place on the organization. There were many posters like you who saw the writing on the wall with those broken teams well before I did.
 
Sexual Favors said:
To your first point. Yes, he will be a free agent next year. And this is why there were those of us clamoring for Corbin to play and develop him, so we'd know his value. You've been in the camp that "but his play doesn't merit it," and that's been the issue. With Paul and Al, Corbin couldn't play him, and I supported that. But, our FO has always known Kanter was a project in every sense of the word. They knew it would take time before he could absorb basketball knowledge and start applying it. Both parties have been in a hard spot. The Jazz had good players in Paul and Al and tough decisions to make. And Kanter needed coaching and development. The jazz chose to blow up the team to allow for his and the other young kids' development, so why bail after one year? He has a whole upcoming season before he hits RFA. I doubt the Jazz expected to see everything they were going to see from him the first season he saw real minutes, in a less than ideal team full of other plays in similar situations, a coach on the last year of his contract, and missing an offseason due to his shoulder. I'm sure they thought about their situation.


I agree with the "If you can turn Enes into an asset that has a better chance at becoming that requisite talent, you pull the trigger." But where is that deal? He's approaching the final year of his rookie deal. He's coming off a season that exposed his weaknesses more than they exposed his strength's. As Jazz fans, we've seen more, know more, etc. other teams aren't going to see as much value in him as he is worth. His potential is still intact. He just barely turned 22 last week. He has little coaching, but he has great touch, instinct for offensive rebounding, size, ability to run, stretch the floor, post up, etc. why should we be looking to sell low? A prospect like him would go in the top 7 of this draft easily. We also know he has good character and work ethic , and a desire to be here. Kanter has elite talent, but hasn't put it together yet, mostly because he hasn't had the time to put it together.
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Good post. Don't really disagree with anything here.

I was/am definitely in the "his play doesn't merit it" camp. I don't think you hand a player a larger role/more minutes until they demand that role/those minutes with their play. I definitely didn't agree with Ty on all his PT decisions, but I also don't get to see what goes on in practice. I thought Kanter deserved some of Al's minutes in 12/13, and I thought Alec deserved some of RJ's minutes in 13/14. I don't think it was a big enough issue to hurt development. That is, especially with Enes in 12/13, I didn't think their play made promotion/more minutes a no-brainer.

Alec showed a lot of improvement between 12/13 and 13/14; he takes advantage of the opportunities he's given, no matter when they come. I'd be really surprised to ever hear excuses from him (and not because he's diplomatic). Kanter, on the other hand, could barely hold his tongue talking about how he deserved more minutes because of his youth. Maybe I'm making too much of this, but I don't think it's a good sign.
 
franklin said:
This post exemplifies the winning requirement Jazz fans place on the organization. There were many posters like you who saw the writing on the wall with those broken teams well before I did.
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Thanks frank. I, uh, am a little stunned here. Wondering if im secretly the butt of some joke going way over my head :-)
 
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