PRIDE Week.

[One Brow]

I think the trans person going on dates without disclosing that fact is putting themself in significant danger.

The hardest part of being the parent of a transgender person for me has been learning of the astronomical increase in the risk of violent assault and murder. To put it in some perspective, gay people are at a significantly greater risk of being assaulted or killed than the general public. Transgender people face many times more risk of violent assault or murder than gay people.

I don't think transgender people should date without disclosing that fact. I think they owe it to the person they are dating because it is each person's choice if that's a romantic situation they want to be in or not. But they owe it to their self to not be in that situation that could easily turn violent. Many men (in particular) might become very angry if they feel that they have been "tricked" into being attracted to what they consider a man. I just think that's an incredibly bad idea all around.

Can we agree that is practical advice for dealing with transphobia, but that blaming a trans person for not identifying as trans is akin to blaming a woman for wearing the wrong clothing?

 

[Gameface]

Can we agree that is practical advice for dealing with transphobia, but that blaming a trans person for not identifying as trans is akin to blaming a woman for wearing the wrong clothing?

No.

I can date only redheads if I want. I can date only tall people (an extremely common discrimination amongst females). I can only date C-cups or above (a somewhat common discrimination amongst males). I can make any number of discriminatory decisions about who I want to date. That's my decision. My right.

I think any person has the right to decide if they want to date transgender people.

I think in pretty much all other situations you can identify as you'd like to identify, but in dating situations I think you ought to be honest. Both parties deserve that going in.

And let me say something here. There are some transgender people that you'd have a hell of a time, even on date, determining that they are transgender. Many of us have had interactions with transgender people and not realized it at all. But that is not always true. Being transgender doesn't mean one thing and it doesn't imply everyone is going to take the same journey. Some people will strive to absolutely be completely identifiable as their chosen gender, others will not. So if you're not, or you're not there yet, then it doesn't always matter how you'd like to be identified, people will know that you're trans, and that's how they will identify you.

I don't think not wanting to date trans people amounts to transphobia. I think it is unreasonable to apply that standard to being accepting of trans rights and acceptance.

 

[LogGrad98]

Can we agree that is practical advice for dealing with transphobia, but that blaming a trans person for not identifying as trans is akin to blaming a woman for wearing the wrong clothing?

I disagree. They are fundamentally different scenarios, and people will react differently to both scenarios. There is much much less of a possibility that a woman wearing the "wrong" clothes (not sure what you mean here, dressing as a typical male? Scantily clad?) will be met with violence.

And I didn't see any blaming here, so not sure where that came from. It's never right to "blame" someone for being who they are. Unless they are a serial killer. Then you can blame them.

 

[Archie Moses]

I think the trans person going on dates without disclosing that fact is putting themself in significant danger.

The hardest part of being the parent of a transgender person for me has been learning of the astronomical increase in the risk of violent assault and murder. To put it in some perspective, gay people are at a significantly greater risk of being assaulted or killed than the general public. Transgender people face many times more risk of violent assault or murder than gay people.

I don't think transgender people should date without disclosing that fact. I think they owe it to the person they are dating because it is each person's choice if that's a romantic situation they want to be in or not. But they owe it to their self to not be in that situation that could easily turn violent. Many men (in particular) might become very angry if they feel that they have been "tricked" into being attracted to what they consider a man. I just think that's an incredibly bad idea all around.

I definitely agree it puts them in danger and I remember reading about it happening to someone. When it happened to me, I experienced a whirlwind of emotions. In her pictures, she looked really cute. I was surprised she told me to pick her up at her place at some apartment complex. It was dark and when I pulled up, I texted her I arrived and she kinda came out of no where and opened the door and got in. I was planning on greating her outside of my car and opening the door. Although it was dark, when she got in, I almost instantly knew she was trans. I panicked in my head I thought I must have missed that on her profile (afterwards I checked, and I didn't.) I was nice and we started talking while I began driving. I almost immediately changed plans from dinner to ice cream because I had an early flight the next day. She was cool with that and I began feeling overwhelmed with embarrassment and thoughts of what do I do and how do I get out of this without making her feel bad?
We ended up arriving at a coffee house (I think) and when I parked I said I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page. She asked what do I mean by that. Being on the spot and terrible at articulating myself, I said something along the lines of her physical appearance. Some like, you're tall, have a deep voice, and I just want to be on the same page. She asked if I were asking if she was a man and told me to take her home. I remember feeling both super relieved and bad because she was visibly upset.
She never told me she was trans that night. I 100% knew it though. Her pics were doctored to hide her masculine physical traits. I ran into her a year or so later at Twists downtown where she told me she was transgender (that's another story haha.)

Anyway, yes I do think they should let people know unfortunately, for the sake of their safety. I also think they should let people know because it makes a difference to a lot of people. I wouldn't date a trans person cause it's just not my thing. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them or my sexual preference is bigoted, it just means I'm into something different. People have sexual preferences and both gender and sex are factors to many.
I did gain a new perspective that day too. It must have been really rough, hard, embarrassing, and sad to be her. It wouldn't be fun at all being female or Male and being born in the wrong body you identify with. That must be absolute hell.

 

[Archie Moses]

My child was born a male. At some point began identifying as female. How long that had been going on before she told my wife, I don't know. But she wrote a letter to my wife because she wasn't sure how I would react. I was a little surprised by that, honestly. I wrote her a letter in return making clear how I felt and that she had my unconditional support.

It was awkward and challenging for a little while to adjust to female pronouns and to her new name. But it has become easier. Although before and after I use "kiddo" more than her name.

Like I said before, I can tell my story and it's not really my place to tell hers. I'm not going to get into any kind of details about medical stuff. What I can say is that she does have a doctor that exclusively deals with transgender patients. She's an amazing doctor who has been in the field for more than 30 years and has been around the U.S. and Europe and has worked with many other doctors and professionals in the field. So I feel lucky to have her.

I think I handled it semi-poorly not in my actions towards my daughter, really, but because I didn't really know what to do or how to relate. It has changed our relationship. I'm honestly just a lot less certain on how I should parent. I'm less of a disclapinarian than I was. My wife, on the other hand has embraced it more than I have, even still.She takes our daughter to get her hair dyed, nails done, buy clothes, etc.. She found a transgender youth support group for her and she has met most of her current friends through that group. So in a way I say I could have been better because my wife has been better. But this hasn't been easy for me. Like I said, I wished it would just go away. It wasn't something I wanted to deal with at all. It wasn't something I expected people I knew would really accept or understand. So I haven't talked about it openly until now.

I have a lot of the same feelings that all decisions should be taken carefully. I think there have been people who have identified one way and then identified another way and then sometimes identified some other way. I have no idea how common that is, but I thinks it's enough of a reason to be very deliberate in how a person deals with this type of thing. That said, my kid is nearly 18 and will be able to make her own decisions.

I think it's easy for many to say they support transgender or are accepting, etc. But experiencing it first hand is a lot different. I relate to you being honest and real about much more than if you were to sugarcoat how easy it's been. I imagine if my kid were transgender, ultimately, I'd love and accept him, but I'd experience things first hand that go beyond saying that online or on social media.
Life is a learning process. Adjusting and evolving outside of societal and personal norms take time, effort, and has learning curves and hiccups.

I'm glad you're sharing this, buddy. I think it's good for you and another step in the right direction.

 

[Archie Moses]

Can we agree that is practical advice for dealing with transphobia, but that blaming a trans person for not identifying as trans is akin to blaming a woman for wearing the wrong clothing?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here so I'm just going to ask rather than assume. Do you think someone is transphobic if they're not into transgenders? If so, why?

 

[checkbookdoc]

I appreciate the loving and supportive tone of this thread. I am sorry for the discrimination you and your child face, but I know that society at large will continue to move in this direction as more "good" people become educated and advocates such as yourself speak up.

That being said, I don't understand what it actually means to be trans. Most of my confusion comes from not knowing what it means to "identify as a man/woman." I have spent a lot of effort over the last several years removing my stereotypes for men/women, but if I also separate man/woman from male/female the label looses all meaning. I mean, if we treat men and women with equality and don't force them into boxes (e.g., sexual orientation, family roles, etc.) then doesn't the only difference between men and women become biology?

Thank you for any responses. I am just trying to learn. Also, I will love and support trans people even if I don't understand... but it would be nice to be on the same page.

 

[One Brow]

No.

I can date only redheads if I want. ... I think any person has the right to decide if they want to date transgender people.

"I think the trans person going on dates without disclosing that fact is putting themself in significant danger.

The hardest part of being the parent of a transgender person for me has been learning of the astronomical increase in the risk of violent assault and murder. ... I don't think transgender people should date without disclosing that fact."

If you ask out someone you think has red hair, but it turns out to be a dye job, should that person be held accountable for "an astronomical increase in the risk of violent assault and murder" by you? If someone were to say "I don't think people who dye their hair should date without disclosing that fact.", would you think that it was a reasonable statement? Would you agree acknowledging being transgender is even more personal, and more fraught with difficulty, than getting your hair dyed for most people?

A transgender woman is still a woman, and presenting themself as a woman is still presenting themself honestly. They should not have to face danger for it, and are not responsible for the hatred of others in the process.

 

[One Brow]

I disagree. They are fundamentally different scenarios, and people will react differently to both scenarios. There is much much less of a possibility that a woman wearing the "wrong" clothes (not sure what you mean here, dressing as a typical male? Scantily clad?) will be met with violence.

Which is why I said it was practical advice.

And I didn't see any blaming here, so not sure where that came from.

If you put the onus on the trans person to avoid violence by revealing deeply personal information, that is victim-blaming.

 

[One Brow]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here so I'm just going to ask rather than assume. Do you think someone is transphobic if they're not into transgenders? If so, why?

I think people can be into different things. Way back when, I dated a couple of women I found to be less attractive in person than in a picture (as you did in your story). I didn't feel any need to bring that up, I would just go through the date, and if they asked if there would be another (usually, people can tell if you are not into them), I would say probably not. The why didn't matter.

 

[Archie Moses]

I think people can be into different things. Way back when, I dated a couple of women I found to be less attractive in person than in a picture (as you did in your story). I didn't feel any need to bring that up, I would just go through the date, and if they asked if there would be another (usually, people can tell if you are not into them), I would say probably not. The why didn't matter.

Fair enough.

I've gone on plenty of dates where the girl didn't look like the pics she had or less attractive. That's a way different story than being misled with doctored pictures to hide that you're transgender. However, like BP said, there are many transgender people that you'd never know they were trans to begin with. Ultimately, I think it should be shared as a courtesy because it is a big difference that goes beyond just physical appearance.

 

[One Brow]

Fair enough.

I've gone on plenty of dates where the girl didn't look like the pics she had or less attractive. That's a way different story than being misled with doctored pictures to hide that you're transgender. Like BP said too, there are many transgender people that you'd never know they were trans to begin with. I think it should be shared as a courtesy because it is a big difference that goes beyond just physical appearance.

Are there any other types of genitalia issues that you feel you should be told about before a first date, or is this the only one?

 

[gandalfe]

Fair enough.

I've gone on plenty of dates where the girl didn't look like the pics she had or less attractive. That's a way different story than being misled with doctored pictures to hide that you're transgender. However, like BP said, there are many transgender people that you'd never know they were trans to begin with. Ultimately, I think it should be shared as a courtesy because it is a big difference that goes beyond just physical appearance.

What about if they doctor photos to hide a scar, or a paunch belly?

Look, I get what you're saying. But I disagree that a trans person needs to disclose before the first date. I would say it needs to be before sex, certainly, and probably before any significant emotional attachment, although that is an unpredictable timeline.

 

[Archie Moses]

Are there any other types of genitalia issues that you feel you should be told about before a first date, or is this the only one?

As a straight person, and having been born biologically male, if I'm dating I only expect to be notified before dating or engaging in conversation (online) if the person of interest isn't biologically a female. I think that's pretty reasonable and echoes what many would say.

If you don't expect that, that's 100% fine. You do you. Your sexual preference is yours as mine is mine.

 

[Archie Moses]

What about if they doctor photos to hide a scar, or a paunch belly?

Look, I get what you're saying. But I disagree that a trans person needs to disclose before the first date. I would say it needs to be before sex, certainly, and probably before any significant emotional attachment, although that is an unpredictable timeline.

Hiding a scare is different than hiding being born the opposite sex.

I totally respect your opinion on this and that's great you feel that way. I just feel differently. Neither of us are wrong.

 

[gandalfe]

Hiding a scare is different than hiding being born the opposite sex.

I totally respect your opinion on this and that's great you feel that way. I just feel differently. Neither of us are wrong.

How about a boob job? When should that be disclosed? Or penile enhancement surgery? Does that need to be disclosed before the first date?

 

[Archie Moses]

How about a boob job? When should that be disclosed? Or penile enhancement surgery? Does that need to be disclosed before the first date?

That's still different.

And it's OK if someone doesn't date someone cause they had a boob job or penis job. It's their sexuality and sexual preference. Pretty egotistical to think they should have to broaden their preference to conform with your ideology.

This is why I don't like discussing this. People will some how make it harder to understand than it is.

 

[gandalfe]

That's still different.

This is why I don't like discussing this. People will some how make it harder to understand than it is.

How is it different?

 

[Archie Moses]

How is it different?

Lol verbal gymnastics.

One was biologically born different. The other was artificially enhanced to enhance their biological physical appearances.

It's not the same and it's a poor comparison.

 

[fishonjazz]

A transgender woman is still a woman, and presenting themself as a woman is still presenting themself honestly.

Ok but here is the thing.
At some point the other person is going to find out that they have a penis or did at one point. The longer it takes for this info to come out the more painful the break up will be.

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