Privileged by Kyle Korver

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by JazzGal, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

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    Could you clarify? If we know the artists you chose to listen to, it may clarify some of your generalizations about the genre.
     

  2. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Yes, once you made a declaration, I accepted it. I'm odd that way. Thanks for the advice.
     
  3. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for you, but I don't judge people by the color of their skin. I suggest you heed Dr. Martin Luther King's advice, that we judge men by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Anyone suggesting to me that I have "White Privilege" should recognize that they are judging me by the color of my skin, not by my actions.
     
  4. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine thinking, "how the hell did you not realize that years ago" because I realize people only know what they know. I understand that a lot of people don't know what the Mormon religion is and if they do, they might not know too much about it or know the common stigmas and stereotypes associated with it.

    I think it's unreasonable to have "certain" expectations for others based off of my understanding and experiences.

    If someone has learned a new truth, perspective, understanding that they feel has helped changed them in a positive way, I'd hope I'd support them, continue to educate and find more common ground. The idea of questioning them or ridiculing them on not being that way before seems rather counterintuitive.
     
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  5. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Just so you are aware, using King's "I Have a Dream" speech to say we should not see race in the present is tactic employed by many racists, in order to try to de-weaponize their opponents. I mean, we know you are sincere and all, but it's a bad look.

    They are not judging you at all. Pointing out how other people treat you is not a judgment on you.
     
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  6. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    One of the main differences is that there is very little Mormon activism, so it's much easier to be ignorant about Mormonism.
     
  7. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

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    The only meaningful response to racism is when people of the same group stand up against racists in their own ethnic group. That is great for you that you don't judge others by the color of their skin, but if you want to do something that actually carries meaning for those who continue to experience hatred you need to take a stand for them.

    Example A:

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/06/05/police-say-man-attacked-by-mob-after-utah-gay-pride-festival/

    Now perhaps you are not willing to take a punch (or several) for the brown people in your community when you witness others who, unlike yourself, do see color as a reason for hate. That's fine, that's your right. But if you want to actually do something meaningful for those Americans who are absolutely bullied (and who stress getting bullied on a daily basis), then you are going to have to take a stand for them. Otherwise you are going to have to accept the identity of a bystander as racist hate continues to unfold around you in this country on a daily basis.

    Korver can certainly be commended for his written piece. But who of us wants to just be all talk for the rest of our lives? Even if you don't want to take a punch, at least say something when these things happen. Show that you have a modicum of a spine while you are still alive.
     
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  8. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Is that an euphemism to say you are an ***? because you are one, a bit racist or at least a xenophobic one. Is sad that in a message board full of white people and in a thread about racism no one except @Stoked has called you in your ********. I'm out.
     
  9. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

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    Wait.... you mean after all that ********, you're still going to just shut up?
     
  10. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    Wait why the heck am I in your sig? lol
     
  11. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

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    Highly speculative. I've read and listened to individuals that study this professionally that suggest once other variables are accounted for (socio-economic status, household type, etc.) minorities often outperform their white counterparts. All depends on who you listen to. Also, I don't know how you measure who "had it harder or easier".

    I agree. He's not. But Thomas Sowell might be. He has long suggested that inequalities among races are entirely due to other factors. Also, he's black....so maybe some one here will be more open minded to his opinions.



    Coleman Hughes also discusses the myth of systemic racism with Dave Rubin.



    At the end of the day, each of us has to decide if we are in favor of either equality or equity. They are not the same thing. Those touting the idea of white privilege seem to be in favor of equity.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    However, it's easy to see how one may not know all the degrees of racism and learn things that change them. It's easy to be ignorant about one's upbringing, empirical truths, experiences and perspectives. If I'm being honest, I probably have some misguided thoughts, ignorance, and privileged perspectives. I've changed so much over the course of my life because I'm open to changes, truths, and experiences. It's taken certain experiences that just happened later than others experiences to understand more certain issues or why I felt the way I did.
    I just find the whole attitude of ridiculing someone or questioning them for not recognizing something earlier counterproductive. Those that don't share common ground with me are not against me or my enemies. It just means they haven't had the same experiences I have or I haven't had the same experiences they have.
     
  13. LoPo

    LoPo Well-Known Member

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    Obama did very little to improve the lives of minorities in this country. He had an entire Democrat Congress for a time and failed to make any substantial changes to provide true movement towards better lives. The only statisitical advances for poor inner city minorities was the flawed Affordable Health Care Act which only improved the lives of a very small portion. The other would be the double or triple sized growth in food stamps.

    I'm not a Trump guy, but seems he has done more for minorities improving their lot in life in 2 years than Obama did in 8 years. Employment and opportunity are an all time high. I was truly hopeful that Obama would inspire and lead a major shift. Nothing ever seemed to happen.

    Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
  14. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that. It takes very special and specific behavior to get on that list. You basically made a post back in the day dissing DL in some way for wasting cap space on Joe Ingles.
     
  15. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    Lol whaaat? I don't recall ever saying anything of the sort but cool, I'm honored. I do recall saying something along the lines that we are trying to hard to make Ingles into a Ginobili type player instead of a Hedo Turgolu(I was wrong on that) but never that we wasted money. Oh well, as I said, cool.
     
  16. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for pointing that out. I hope no one inferred that I was suggesting we should not see race.

    Do you honestly feel that there is no judgement involved when someone claims that another has "White Privilege"? If someone tells me I have white privilege, without knowing me or my background, to me that is a judgment. They would be suggesting that I've benefited from systemic advantages. This is diminishing my accomplishments (however little they are).

    I posted a clip earlier of a Black woman on a radio show claiming that another man has benefited from "White Privilege", only to discover that he is Black. It's astonishing to me how quickly her tone and attitude changed toward this man once she discovered he was Black. If you listen to the short clip, I believe you will agree that a degree of judgement towards another person is involved when claiming another has White Privilege.
     
  17. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, we all have this responsibility. I wish someone would have told the guy yelling at Westbrook to sit down and shut his mouth.
     
  18. Mission Accomplished

    Mission Accomplished Well-Known Member

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    Should he as a white male start kneeling in support of his teammates? It could start the conversation that the NBA has stayed away from having. Eagles player Chris Long seems to be the leader on this problem.
    Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app
     
  19. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    I will take you assessment under advisement.
     
  20. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Measured, by direct experimentation, in dozens of ways, over and over.

    I'm game. I'd like to read some of these studies, please.

    For example, in the job market, you could measure who was more likely to be offered a position, after controlling for variables like clothing, enunciation, etc. You could post basically identical resumes with stereotypical names and measure response rates. You could compare tips given for various qualities of service. You seem like a creative guy. I bet you could some up with more.

    I fully acknowledge that you will be able to find dozens of black people who deny the existence or effect of racism today. I am happy that is their experience, although it seems convenient most of them for right-wing organizations. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

    I read Sowell's opinions regularly, once upon a time. I found his economic perspectives pretty standard right-wing stuff. However, for Sowell, you can find hundreds of Coates, Jabbars, etc. I have no problem accepting Sowell's descriptions of his own experiences, but they are dwarfed by the descriptions of other black writers. Are you as willing to accept the experiences and research of Coates as I am of Sowell?

    Is not equity the way to allow everyone to rise and fall on their own merits?
     

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