Quin has lost his mind

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Mission Accomplished, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. jimmy eat jazz

    jimmy eat jazz Well-Known Member

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    Let's also not forget that John and Karl continually "choked" in the playoffs, until they didn't. If Twitter and Jazzfanz were around in those days (maybe Jazzfanz was), no doubt many of the same people now who hold them in hagiographic reverence would have, back in the day, been calling on the FO to get rid of the bums, break them up, rebuild, etc.

    Jazz are playing poorly, no doubt. Houston, however, is the better team and a bad matchup. Again, for those people who wanted to face Houston out of some old school fanciful notion that true champions travel the hard road, I hope you're happy.
     
  2. Lakers_Slapper

    Lakers_Slapper Well-Known Member

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    Please don't compare Harden to MJ. Because of the 3's? Because of the Triple doubles? Are you aware of the Watered down defense that the "today" NBA roots are build from? "As good as any guard in NBA history, including MJ". What the hell are you smoking? Your not even allowed to play defense in today's NBA. Harden wouldn't make it through the first 3 quarters getting elbows to his ribs driving the lane with the 90's defenders. How old are you?? It is so damn obvious that you are younger than 35, it's not even funny. What else is going to come out of your mouth? Your capable of saying anything at this point, the stupidest thing that someone could think has already been said by you. Is Enes Kanter as good as Moses Malone? Lebron would probably dance circles around Larry Bird in his prime according to you. Ben Simmons is only a year away from being the guy that your find worthy enough before you start buying underwear with his name stitched in the ***. Baaahaaaaaaaaa!!!! You have me dying right now. When your balls do decide to drop, remember that a vasectomy is the greatest gift that you can provide to the intelligence of man kind. But lets face the facts. Someone with your condition is going to infect the world with 5 or 6 little rascals that are just like you. Further contributing to the over abundant population affected by the Dunning Kruger effect.

    Harden is definitely by far ever as great as MJ. Your so right.
     
  3. Lord Bullingdon

    Lord Bullingdon Well-Known Member

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    agreed. I suspected this 2 years ago and was vilified here over it.. or perhaps i had already ascended to super villain status by that point, i forget.
     
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  4. addictionary

    addictionary Well-Known Member

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    It took 2 away losses against one of the best teams to start this. I’m impressed. The thing is, morale seems to be down for some reason. If there is no motivation, there is no success. At this point, since players are healthy, it’s Snyder’s job to find what motivates them and do it. Trying new stuff produces the exact opposite result. I hope they gather themselves at home. It would be such a pity a team like the Jazz who are the game’s defensive influence to many others gets swept or do not give the Rockets a run for their money.
     
  5. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    This.
    And lets remember, harden has never even shot 40% from three for a season.
     
  6. LoPo

    LoPo Well-Known Member

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    I'm 40 and I watched all the guys you are referring to. James Harden does stuff MJ never could. MJ was revolutionary in how he played. Wings didn't know how to guard him. The best defender of his era was 6'3" Joe Dumars who was about as athletic as Raymond Felton.

    Every wing in today's game has to be able to defend on the perimeter. They train to guard guys who play like MJ. Even more, they now have to guard the 3. What Harden is doing offensively is incredible. Sure there was more contact in MJ's day, but you couldn't touch MJ. You couldn't hit him the same way other guys were getting hit.

    For a concrete example, look at Reggie Miller. He played in that era and torched teams. Harden is miles better at everything than Reggie. Every facet of his game is much better than Reggie's.

    So yes, Harden's offense can easily be compared to MJ. I actually think it's better. Harden is hitting step back 3's over 6'8" defenders. MJ hit fade away 14 footers over guys like Hornacek, Ehlo, Dumars, etc.

    Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
  7. jazfan23

    jazfan23 Active Member

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    It’s exactly what I thought today , after the first few minutes and Quinn sticks with the stupid game plan , even Chris Webber was getting frustrated...

    I don’t blame any of the players or the offence , Quinn has screwed with their minds so much , even on offence , all they can think about is defence .
     
  8. Mission Accomplished

    Mission Accomplished Well-Known Member

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    I think you have some recency bias. Because never did a team do what we are doing to Harden to MJ. Because analytics didn't exist to drive coaches out of their minds.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app
     
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  9. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    I think Dantoni is running circles around Snyder. He's completely exposed our offensive game plan. He's taken Mitchell completely out of his game and made Ingles softer than a pancake. I was listening to a Rockets assistant coach and he talked about making guys like Rubio and Crowder beat you. Crowder, a 33% three point shooter who is not only given a green light to shoot terrible shots, he's encouraged to.

    While I agree, it's not all in him, I also think a lot if it is. Dude is a fantastic coach but I think he's getting it handed to him.
     
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  10. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    I wouldn't say every aspect.
    Reggie had 10 seasons when he shot over 40% from three. Harden has zero so far.

    And ya mj was treated good by the officials but no where near as good as harden. Harden is treated better by the officials than anyone in NBA history and it isn't close.

    I agree with your general point though. That harden is amazing.

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  11. Mission Accomplished

    Mission Accomplished Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how good Reggie would be if you guarded his backside?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app
     
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  12. jope

    jope Well-Known Member

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    TBF, MJs career high in FTA/game for a season (11.9) is higher than Harden’s (11.0) but I agree.
     
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  13. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    I just remember a stat I saw a while back that took all the best treated and best players in NBA history. Guys like Karl Malone, Jordon, Kobe, LeBron, etc and they compared them to harden looking at free throw attempts in a ratio to field goals made. All the non harden players had thousands more field goals made than free throws attempted.
    Harden had more free throws attempted than field goals made.
    It was quite eye opening.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
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  14. jom2003

    jom2003 Well-Known Member

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    And why quin is so concerned with stopping harden is beyond me. You not gonna stop anybody if your entire defensive scheme is centered around stoping the most unstoppable player in this league. Let Harden drop 70 or 80 points if he could, do not rotate/leave your defenders to help cover Harden. It's opening his passing lane and not gonna work. If we can limit everyone else to under 40 points we’d have a better chance of winning.
     
  15. Eenie-Meenie

    Eenie-Meenie Well-Known Member

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    Old enough to have seen Bob Cousy play. I stand by what I say. People always romanticize the past. There were few players who could shoot like the players today. People like Bird, Freddy "downtown" Brown, and Dell Curry, to name a few. Harden is playing at an incredibly and historically high level right now. It would not surprise me if Houston beats the Warriors. They might've last year, had CP3 not gotten injured.
     
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  16. LoPo

    LoPo Well-Known Member

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    Considering how many more possessions they use now, it is staggering to think that MJ had more free throw attempts per game than Harden gets now. Staggering.
     
  17. Eenie-Meenie

    Eenie-Meenie Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that Harden's offensive game is much more refined than MJ's, more in that sense like Bird. MJ was an athletic freak and this is what made him so great.
     
  18. LoPo

    LoPo Well-Known Member

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    Great post.

    There have always been shooters, but the shooting off the dribble has changed the game. Guys like Bird, Ray Allen, Dell Curry, Korver, and so many more are pure shooters who hit shots when the offense led to an open enough look. The fact that Harden, Steph Curry and others don't need a set offense in order to shoot a slightly lower percentage than those guys is pretty amazing. When they get fouled shooting the 3, it doesn't get reflected in their shooting percentage either.

    MJ changed the game because he could use a very rarely used "isolation" method of basketball to score buckets from the triple threat position. The stars now are doing the same for 3 pointers instead of 2 pointers. It's remarkable. Who in Jordan's era minus Scottie Pippen is actually bothering Harden for what he does now?
     
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  19. Gobzilla

    Gobzilla Well-Known Member

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    This is what I've been saying! When other teams stars have gone off on the Jazz but the Jazz shut everyone else down on their team, they have won! Yes, it was against lesser teams, but, I'd much rather the Jazz play that type of defense instead of whatever it is they have been trying to do.
     
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  20. cowhide

    cowhide Well-Known Member

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    The discouraging thing about this mess is that DL and QS had a whole year to address the Houston issue. Maybe they thought they had when we beat them earlier in the year. However, it looks like the Jazz are playing as if they have never seen what Houston is doing to them. DL is responsible for the roster and hopefully after this disaster is over he will realize that the Jazz need to make significant changes. Quin looks like he was unprepared because he just threw this new defense together after watching the Bucks. If this is true then for a whole year he had not prepared for the switching defense that Houston has used the last two playoff series.

    As fans perhaps we overestimated how good the Jazz team is. We got excited because they made a late season run against a weak schedule while we ignored the reality that Utah was losing to potential playoff opponents earlier in the year. Jazz need major upgrades at PG, PF and even SF. I love Ingles but he is more of a bench player than a starter on a championship team. Yea i know his fan club is going to go off on me. I think the Jazz should have played Allen earlier in the season even if he sucked but it is obvious that he has improved. Chemistry is great but talent wins in the NBA. Jazz need to stop being so loyal and improve the team even if it hurts some players feelings.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019

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