Raja can't let it go
- Thread starter mellow
- Start date
Hartsock
Banned
Blues would be a great GM, he would just simply trade away all of our bad players for good players, and draft the perfect player every single year. The Jazz would win 11 championships in a row. Life would be good.
See? You are mad. It's okay, I don't think you're as dumb as everyone else does.
BluesRocker
Banned
KOC actually does something when there is a fire in the house. Thats one of the few times he actually gets proactive.
He traded for Korver after Sloan threw Girisuck out of a game and it became obvious just about to everybody that Girisuck was worthless.
He traded Deron after Deron tore down the house and our HOF coach left and Deron never committed to anything.
He is good at salvaging something out of tough situations.
So lets hope Bell throws a punch at one of the coaching staff before this summer ends. I am sure his behind will be shipped out of here in a jiffy
Iam with you though mostly on this topic. KOC apologists act like as if they know everything behind the doors and as if KOC came up with one brilliant idea after another only to be shot down by Sloan and Miller. Yet there is hardly proof of the same and its all speculation. Now I am not saying that KOC has complete freedom or he has the ultimate authority in this organization. But it gets irksome when every good move is credited to KOC and any bad moves or a good move not made is attributed to Sloan(or Miller) handcuffing KOC.
Did Sloan ask KOC to go get Amaechi or Palacio or Mcleod or all the other worthless stiffs we have had in the last decade? Or did Sloan suggest that we draft Lopez over Parker or give up on Mo Williams after one season or extend Memo or give away Wes Mathews to Porty?
Besides draft mistakes there have been many putrid FA signings done by this organization and there is no proof whatsoever that Sloan was involved in those.
Iam also constantly amused at people who proclaim KOC is a genius for quickly rebuilding this team when in the last 3 years before that the team constantly regressed and kept getting eliminated earlier and earlier in the playoffs and the same team kept coming back year after year with just cosmetic changes.
Yes he might have done a good job of quickly getting this team back to the playoffs(like he did in 2005) but what led to a rebuilding situation in the first place? why did the team keep getting eliminated in the first or secnd round every year in the playoffs? why could we never get over the hump? Oh, I forgot, it was all because of Sloan.
To a Jazz fan the Jazz modus operandi seems to be like this:
Do whatever it takes to quickly put together a team that can make the playoffs and get fanbase excited. Stay with them for a few years and make the fans believe you are going to eventually compete for a championship. But then dont do anything further or dont break the bank for a title when you have a team that can make the playoffs every year. Do small tweaks and milk the team to see how far they can go every year. Dont forget to mention about "internal improvement" every time. If all that pisses off a star in your team who wants to win it all, so be it. Let him walk away or ship his behind out for a few picks. Start rebuilding again while still continuing "to compete". Rinse. Repeat.
Atleast we are better than the Clippers, right?
Do whatever it takes to quickly put together a team that can make the playoffs and get fanbase excited. Stay with them for a few years and make the fans believe you are going to eventually compete for a championship. But then dont do anything further or dont break the bank for a title when you have a team that can make the playoffs every year. Do small tweaks and milk the team to see how far they can go every year. Dont forget to mention about "internal improvement" every time. If all that pisses off a star in your team who wants to win it all, so be it. Let him walk away or ship his behind out for a few picks. Start rebuilding again while still continuing "to compete". Rinse. Repeat.
Atleast we are better than the Clippers, right?
BluesRocker
Banned
Thank you!
Finally someone comes to help me
I dont think O Connor is terrible. He just isnt as good as people make him out to be
Amazing that only a couple people agree with me on this.
I say, where are the championships to warrant everyone bowing down to him and proclaiming he is fault free?
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
Hey dude, we won the pre-season two years ago. We were the only undefeated team in the league. The championship parade was awesome, even though KOC has developed such an incredibly humble team that they didn't even show up. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
BluesRocker
Banned
Another good post.
I have basically said all of that, but in many different ways.
Im sure a lot of Deron's attitude came from his frustration over watching Kevin do nothing with our team and watch us get worse every year. But the fans all think its was all Deron's fault, and O Connor is to take no blame the team kept getting eliminated from the playoffs.
I feel the same way. I feel like the Jazz orginization does sell you on they will do what it takes to win a championship, but they dont follow through. It feels like they are just playing a bunch of suckers around here.
Fans should be worried about the rough start Favors has gotten off to around here, as far as coming off the bench. He has missed out on chance of rookie of the year, and almost a chance at the rookie sophmore game. As well as missing opportunities to play. All because we refuse to make moves. These messages I am sure, are coning in loud and clear to Favors. He is young, but I am sure he gets if the FO is being stupid or not.
Also Favors, I am sure, wants to make big money. Its kind of hard to prove your worth in limited minutes off the bench. But to him and his agent it isnt going to matter. They are going to want a max contract whether he has shown it or not. That's the dilema the Jazz are putting themselves in with this. They arent going to have a body of work to warrant paying max to him, but they will have to take that chance anyways. Because isnt our option to extend him coming up. I thought we maxed Deron out after his third year. Am I right? So what if Favors rides the pine for one more year? Its going to be a mess. Dont we want to know if Favors can stay healthy and be consitant. We can know that when we are trying to go to the mountain top with Al and Paul. Also what about spending a #3 pick on Kanter and we look no where close to getting him on the floor? This is really becoming a joke.
If this team has to trade Favors after a while because he gets fed up. Then I will seriously quit watching until Kevin O Connor is gone. I will go to the ESA and protest.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
I don't understand people who say that the Jazz never break te bank in order to pursue a championship. Uhh, weren't they knee-deep in the LT 2 years ago? As far as I recall, the jazz typically spend much more than the average NBA team, especially over the few seasons preceding deron and Sloan leaving.
What people fail to realize us how much of a stranglehold Andrew kirilenko put us in. I attribute this team not being able to go for a Finals run strictly because of him, along with Memos extension. Merely having enough caproom to sign a player like Perkins would have completely changed our 2008-2010 teams. Keep in mind, 2010 wasn't exactly a regression, as we had 1 starter out, and a 2nd starter Was just returning as the series started.
What people fail to realize us how much of a stranglehold Andrew kirilenko put us in. I attribute this team not being able to go for a Finals run strictly because of him, along with Memos extension. Merely having enough caproom to sign a player like Perkins would have completely changed our 2008-2010 teams. Keep in mind, 2010 wasn't exactly a regression, as we had 1 starter out, and a 2nd starter Was just returning as the series started.
Stars Fan
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how this became a referendum on KOC. But since it has, let me chime in. Most JAZZFANZ posters tend to forget about the limitations that KOC has to work within. I see people dissing him for not doing more, without really seeing the things he tries to do that just fall through. Most of that is because of the way he operates. You don't hear about a Jazz trade until it has happened. He keeps things close to the vest. Which I think is smart. How many teams have we seen fall apart over trade rumors? So KOC won't let you know how close we came to making a trade. Judging by the things he has done, I don't think we can say he is reluctant to pull the string on a trade that makes the team better. But he can't make the profitability issue go away, and he can't make Utah into LA, Miami, or NY. So he has to build through the draft and smart trades.
I see a lot of folks suggest trades that go something like this...let's trade our bench warmer for their all-star, or future all-star. In the real world you have to give up something to get something, and that makes it harder to build a contender. Dallas throws money at the problem, OKC had a run of great drafts, some other teams have done well too. But unless you have $ or environment you are not going to attract FAs like NY, LA, or FL does. We have a great young core that over achieved this past season and is set to make a bigger splash in the years ahead...and KOC is still looking for the right deal to make us a real contender. If it is possible, he will do it. He hasn't hesitated yet to make a trade, or signing, that has made us a better team. So I'll have trust in him to make the right calls going forward.
When Deron bolts the Nets, the League will be asking KOC to run seminars on how to run a small market team the right way.
I say give the guy his props.
I see a lot of folks suggest trades that go something like this...let's trade our bench warmer for their all-star, or future all-star. In the real world you have to give up something to get something, and that makes it harder to build a contender. Dallas throws money at the problem, OKC had a run of great drafts, some other teams have done well too. But unless you have $ or environment you are not going to attract FAs like NY, LA, or FL does. We have a great young core that over achieved this past season and is set to make a bigger splash in the years ahead...and KOC is still looking for the right deal to make us a real contender. If it is possible, he will do it. He hasn't hesitated yet to make a trade, or signing, that has made us a better team. So I'll have trust in him to make the right calls going forward.
When Deron bolts the Nets, the League will be asking KOC to run seminars on how to run a small market team the right way.
I say give the guy his props.
Hartsock
Banned
How about keeping possibly the smallest market team in the NBA relevant and very competitive for the past 25 years? Or is winning a championship the only way to keep your job? Should we just shuffle through random GM's until one wins us a championship? Should we fire Corbin and just hire someone who is perfect and really wants to coach in SLC, who has never been fired for not performing before? Should we just trade Raja for a better player even though nobody wants Raja, not us not anyone. You make it out like KOC is turning down all these really good offers for our crap players. I just think you are being completely unreasonable and unrealistic. We should just go out and take another teams GM, I don't think its quite that easy.
Hartsock
Banned
Nobody knows what really going on except KOC ...... oh and Blues he does too.
BluesRocker
Banned
Wtf man?
Seriously, do you know how that sounds?
You keep trying to argue that I dont know what goes on behind closed doors, but you think its perfectly reasonable for you to speculate what has or hasnt gone one. How are you not contradicting yourself? You dont know either. All we can go off of is what has happened out in the open. Which isnt much. And that is what we are talking about.
So why do you and others kerp telling me what is going on behind the scenes. None of you know more about that than I do. Nobody does. Not Kevin or anybody in the Jazz even talk about it.
I dont expect him to be pulling off miraculous trades every year, but I would expect something to show he is trying. Justanding pat every year when you arent winning titles is stupid. Id rather go down swinging. Especially when we are at a time and juncture when the team needs it. Not every year or offseason should big moves be made. But there is times for it.
The Deron Williams trade doesnt really count. He made that move out of fear and to offset the risk of losing Deron. Show me a big move he has made to improve the team, not start over. Any mouth breather could have pulled that Deron trade off.
BluesRocker
Banned
How is it any different from KOC apologists?
Hey man I have allergies ok!
Hartsock
Banned
You're joking right? You are the one that brought up everyone else not knowing what was going on, that it was all speculation, implying that your thoughts were not speculation but were based on inside knowledge. You dug your own grave, made your own bed, now you have to sleep in your bed full of terrible opinions and ideas.
Do you truly believe KOC has turned down really good trade proposals? Did he turn these great offers down to spite you? To try and keep the jazz down? It just doesn't make sense. Sure he has made a few missteps, every GM has, but he has done more than enough to be trusted to make the right decision. Just my opinion I guess. Keep your head in the clouds man, we will get an all star in return for Raja soon.
BluesRocker
Banned
Umm...
How long do you think KOC has been the general manager?
Also you dont think John, Karl, and Deron had something to do with the Jazz's long success