RealGM: Is Quin Snyder’s offense a good fit for the Jazz or is it holding them back?

[franklin]

The offense has looked a little bit better, but I disagree with your analysis here. The Jazz run sets, they don't run set plays.

? Do you mean they run sets not a set offense? Set plays are sets. And yes, the Jazz are developing more of a set offense based on 1 in 4 out and 5 out. It is read-react. However, the OP article was clearly based on historical QS and seems like the author has not watched any of the Jazz this pre-season. Last year, the Jazz put a lot of bodies in the paint and played perimeter pnr and shot a lot of long 2's. This year they are getting into the paint much more.

Regardless, you made a statement that the Jazz are getting the bigs the ball in traffic. It's the opposite. The Jazz bigs are getting to line because they are open and putting the defense in a position where they have to foul. That's the difference, and I don't think it comes from systematic changes.

Huh? The bigs are getting open but getting to the line without traffic? Umm...

 

[KqWIN]

? Do you mean they run sets not a set offense? Set plays are sets. And yes, the Jazz are developing more of a set offense based on 1 in 4 out and 5 out. It is read-react. However, the OP article was clearly based on historical QS and seems like the author has not watched any of the Jazz this pre-season. Last year, the Jazz put a lot of bodies in the paint and played perimeter pnr and shot a lot of long 2's. This year they are getting into the paint much more.

A set play is designed to get a specific shot or to get a specific player in specific area. Sets are just the general motions that team runs. You don't go into expecting a certain kind of shot. The offense has an action, the defense reacts, and then the player has to decide what to do with it from there. That's how the Jazz offense works and has worked since Quin has been here. We have much better decision makers now, you could have seen this coming a mile away. Of course Hill and Diaw are going to be making better decisions with the ball than Neto and Favors.

The Jazz aren't developing a 4 out system as much as it is that they just have different personnel. You can't run a 4 out system with Favors unless he's the only big. The entire point of a 4 out system is to have 4 guys that space the floor and Favors doesn't do that. We play differently with him on the floor, it's just a fact.

At the end of the day, it's just preseason anyways. I don't know how you can make large judgements about our offense in 6 preseason games where we were missing our best offensive players for the majority of the time. I think you can say that Hill, Diaw, and Exum are fitting in nicely, but beyond that, I don't see much of a structural change in our offense.

Our offense wasn't that bad in the first place. You say that our offense generated a lot of long 2's, but the Jazz were 25th in the league in percentage of shots taken as long 2's last season. That's not a lot, especially when consider how many possessions ended up with Hood/Hayward having to toss one up against the clock. The offense certainly isn't designed to create long 2's.

Huh? The bigs are getting open but getting to the line without traffic? Umm...

In order to get the line, you need to have the ball first. Rudy is catching the ball in much better positions this year, and it's not because he turned into Jerry Rice over the summer. He's open and catching the pass clean. Once he catches it, the defense has to let him dunk it or foul him. If they were in position, they wouldn't have to foul him.

 

[framer]

It would be more correct to state that "Trey Burke shot a lot of long twos until Quinn benched his *** for shooting and missing a lot of long twos."

 

[green]

So, after one game, now that we have definitive evidence and how amazing or terrible we will be this year, how did the offense look?

To my untrained eye, it looked the same as last year.

 

[franklin]

A set play is designed to get a specific shot or to get a specific player in specific area. Sets are just the general motions that team runs. You don't go into expecting a certain kind of shot. The offense has an action, the defense reacts, and then the player has to decide what to do with it from there. That's how the Jazz offense works and has worked since Quin has been here. We have much better decision makers now, you could have seen this coming a mile away. Of course Hill and Diaw are going to be making better decisions with the ball than Neto and Favors.

The Jazz aren't developing a 4 out system as much as it is that they just have different personnel. You can't run a 4 out system with Favors unless he's the only big. The entire point of a 4 out system is to have 4 guys that space the floor and Favors doesn't do that. We play differently with him on the floor, it's just a fact.

At the end of the day, it's just preseason anyways. I don't know how you can make large judgements about our offense in 6 preseason games where we were missing our best offensive players for the majority of the time. I think you can say that Hill, Diaw, and Exum are fitting in nicely, but beyond that, I don't see much of a structural change in our offense.

Our offense wasn't that bad in the first place. You say that our offense generated a lot of long 2's, but the Jazz were 25th in the league in percentage of shots taken as long 2's last season. That's not a lot, especially when consider how many possessions ended up with Hood/Hayward having to toss one up against the clock. The offense certainly isn't designed to create long 2's.





In order to get the line, you need to have the ball first. Rudy is catching the ball in much better positions this year, and it's not because he turned into Jerry Rice over the summer. He's open and catching the pass clean. Once he catches it, the defense has to let him dunk it or foul him. If they were in position, they wouldn't have to foul him.

I said set offence not set plays, but thanks for the clarification of your preferred jargon.

NBA offenses do run set plays within set offenses. Using your jargon, no NBA offense runs set plays; they all run set plays within sets. Watch the Jazz-Clippers highlights. There are some pretty bad *** new schemes designed to get a specific shot, mainly a three within the set.

I don't get your beef that better players = same exact offense. This is not who Quin Snyder is. He is well known for creativity and utilizing who he has. He seems to love creating new [set] plays. With new players he will evolve the offense and has. He has distinctly changed the high pnr from the point guard angle. They also weren't running 5 out last year and going so hard north to south.

 

[framer]

So, after one game, now that we have definitive evidence and how amazing or terrible we will be this year, how did the offense look?

To my untrained eye, it looked the same as last year.

Just watch Rodney Hood highlights from last game compared to highlight videos from last year and it is pretty easy to see the changes.

 

[KqWIN]

I said set offence not set plays, but thanks for the clarification of your preferred jargon.

NBA offenses do run set plays within set offenses. Using your jargon, no NBA offense runs set plays; they all run set plays within sets. Watch the Jazz-Clippers highlights. There are some pretty bad *** new schemes designed to get a specific shot, mainly a three within the set.

I don't get your beef that better players = same exact offense. This is not who Quin Snyder is. He is well known for creativity and utilizing who he has. He seems to love creating new [set] plays. With new players he will evolve the offense and has. He has distinctly changed the high pnr from the point guard angle. They also weren't running 5 out last year and going so hard north to south.

You actually said that sets are the same thing as set plays, and I disagreed so I put in my two cents. The real distinction is that plays are predetermined whereas as sets are not. Earlier you said that there was very little read-react to Quin's offense and I completely disagree with that. Quin's offense is organic and it presents the players with decisions that they have to make on the fly. We do things to open up other things, but the notion that there was no read and react is just wrong in my opinion.

Different players will attack situations in different ways. For example, consider the moment our ball handler turns the corner on the pick and roll. If it's Mack, he's probably going to take to the hole and look for a shot around the basket or dish it off. Neto is going to look for a pass to the big right away and if he can't find it he's just going to swing it. Hood might try to shield the defender with his back and look for a pull up...The setup is the same, but the result is different because of the difference of players.

You're correct that we weren't running 5 out last season, and we're not using it much this year either. Lyles and Diaw together very briefly in the preseason. The entire point of a 4 out or 5 out system is to have 4 or 5 guys that can space the floor. It's entirely dependent on the personnel. When you replace Favors with Lyles or Diaw it opens up things quite a bit. The principles of the offense are the same, but the floor is more open and we don't need to run so much smoke an mirrors.

Thanks for the recommendation about the highlights, but I'll pass. For one, I've seen every play that happened in the preseason and half of them in person. I also think watching highlights to understand an offense, especially in the preseason, is not effective at all but to each their own. Watching a portion of the possessions that result in a highlight is not how I make judgements on how an offense works.