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Reasons you left the LDS church.

This is new to me. I thought they only thought of him as a prophet. He's a Messiah just not Islam's Messiah?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_Jesus

First paragraph of article (I know, Wikipedia isn't necessarily the most accurate of sources all the time, but it'll suffice):
In Islam, Jesus (Arabic: عيسى‎ ʿĪsā) is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[1] The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Qur'an mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.[2][3] It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah). To aid in his ministry to the Jewish people, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles (such as healing the blind, bringing dead people back to life, etc.), all by the permission of God rather than of his own power. According to the popular opinion and Muslim traditions, Jesus was not crucified but instead, he was raised up by God unto the heavens. This "raising" is understood to mean through bodily ascension. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the day of judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist).[4][5]

This always seems to startle people, with good reason I suppose.
 
Like that black people were less valiant followers of Christ in the pre-existence?

Yes, I know some LDS members had that belief. Elder Bruce McConkie was probably the most well-known such individual, based on his book Mormon Doctrine. Of course, after 1978 he also famously said "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."
 
What a convenient thing revelation must be. You don't even have to come up with your own excuses!
 
Yes, I know some LDS members had that belief. Elder Bruce McConkie was probably the most well-known such individual, based on his book Mormon Doctrine. Of course, after 1978 he also famously said "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."
I just thought it was strange that you used the word "likely", although I suppose you could argue that that condition wasn't "some other thing like" a curse.
 
Yes, I know some LDS members had that belief. Elder Bruce McConkie was probably the most well-known such individual, based on his book Mormon Doctrine. Of course, after 1978 he also famously said "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."

It's something difficult to deal with...

And impossible for some members to comprehend...

But even high general authorities are still people.

They still have their opinions.

Elder Faust was a Democrat. While Pres Benson was a Republican (and wasn't afraid to proclaim his staunch conservative political stances).

I'm sure some general authorities don't believe in watching the NFL on Sunday. While others watch and have no issue with it.

Mormon Doctrine, despite what many people want to believe or crititicise, is merely a book written by a church leader.

There are some good things in it. But it's not recognized as official publication such as the Book of Mormon...
 
Like that black people were less valiant followers of Christ in the pre-existence?

I remember being told that blacks were all descendants of Cain. This mark was placed upon his and his descendants flesh for killing his brother Abel.
 
You're gonna have to do more homework on that because that's not entirely true, guy.

I could probably write a book on this one. "DNA 'evidence' relies on statistical analysis much more than on observed facts." And everyone should know that "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"(OK mods, I know the language isn't according to Hoyle, but give me some slack, it's a famous quote attempting to put statistics in the lowest category of arguments).

So here's the concise version of the situation with human genetics. In attempting to draw conclusions from genetic comparisons it is necessary first to posit some reasonable assumptions and gather some actual facts about what is already known about past populations, their locations and historical movements. The Asian land bridge hypothesis is usually drawn to fit the receding ice sheetlocations, believed to be known from geologic pollen strata and ice core drilling to be about 10000 years ago, when it is possible that a narrow land passage existed between the oceans and the ice that allowed hunting nomads to push along the thousand-miles' gap to find larger ice-free areas and game to hunt on the other side of the passage. But nobody can actually know which direction those nomads moved, from Asia to America or from America to Asia. There is accumulating evidence that people were here before that ice-free passage opened up, by 20,000 years. So far, there is not equal evidence of people living on the Siberian side in that period. There is also compelling evidence that sea peoples were sailing the Pacific coasts from Asia clear to America- or perhaps in the opposite direction--- 15000 years ago. Fact is, there are coastal island human cultural remains dating to that period which indicate a fishing economy and seafaring lifestyle.

Further evidence of European migrations around 25000 years ago link Eastern coastal site with sites in France.

The attempt to repudiate the Book of Mormon story with at least equally ignorant "science" is just useless and pointless. Internally, from the Book of Mormon, there are several migrations mentioned, at least three from Eurasia to America and at least one back across the Pacific, or into the Pacific Islands at least. One of my ancestors was perhaps the first ordained LDS missionary to the Pacific, set apart to preach while working his livelihood as a sailor for the British merchant fleet. He recorded in his journals a vivid dream, some might call it a "revelation" but it was never claimed as a revelation by the LDS Church. In his dream he was informed that the Japanese were a Nephite branch. I myself went to the Philippines as a missionary, and my experience more or less satisfied me that they were a Book of Mormon "Lamanite" remnant.

One linguist studying the Polynesian languages and Egyptian history found cognate words between Polynesian and the northern Egyptian tribes of about 300 BC. Greek words being used in Polynesia. It is historically known that the Egyptians sailed huge ocean-going ships across the Indian Ocean and mined gold in Indonesia. The whole Malayo-Polynesian set of languages stretches from Madagascar to Formosa and steles in that alphabet have been found on the American Pacific Coast.

Oh this is already too long and I haven't even discussed the statistical calculations of how human gene pools change over time. Let it be enough to just say that the ignoramuses who have tried to claim science in drawing conclusions about the Book of Mormon peoples will before another hundred years goes by be looked back on as the true idiots they are. Too many over-the-top assumptions, and gross factual errors, to prove anything.
 
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I could probably write a book on this one. "DNA 'evidence' relies on statistical analysis much more than on observed facts." And everyone should know that "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"(OK mods, I know the language isn't according to Hoyle, but give me some slack, it's a famous quote attempting to put statistics in the lowest category of arguments).

So here's the concise version of the situation with human genetics. In attempting to draw conclusions from genetic comparisons it is necessary first to posit a reasonable assumption about what is actually known about past populations, their locations and historical movements. The Asian land bridge hypothesis usally is drawn to fit the receding ice sheetlocations, known from geologic and ice core drilling and soil tests, about 10000 years ago, when it is possible that a narrow land passage existed between the oceans and the ice that allowed hunting nomads to push along the thousand-miles gap to find larger ice-free areas and game to hunt on the American side of the passage. But nobody can actually know which direction those nomads moved, from Asia to America or from America to Asia. There is accumulating evidence that people were here before that ice-free passage opened up, by 20,000 years. There is also compelling evidence that sea peoples were sailing the Pacific coasts from Asia clear to America- or perhaps in the opposite direction--- 15000 years ago. Fact is, there are coastal island human cultural remains dating to that period which indicate a fishing economy and seafaring lifestyle.

Further evidence of European migrations around 25000 years ago link Eastern coastal site with sites in France.

The attempt to repudiate the Book of Mormon story with at least equally ignorant "science" is just useless and pointless. Internally, from the Book of Mormon, there are several migrations mentions, at least three from Eurasia to America and at least one back across the Pacific, or into the Pacific Islands at least. One of my ancestors was perhaps the first ordained LDS missionary to the Pacific, set apart to preach while working his livelihood as a sailor for the British merchant fleet. He recorded in his journals a vivid dream, some might call it a "revelation" but it was never claimed as a revelation by the LDS Church. In his dream he was informed that the Japanese were a Nephite branch. I myself went to the Philippines as a missionary, and my experience more or less satisfied my that they were a Book of Mormon "Lamanite" remnant.

One linguist studying the Polynesian languages and Egyptian history found cognate words between Polynesian and the northern Egyptian tribes of about 300 BC. Greek words being used in Polynesia. It is historically known that the Egyptians ran a huge ocean-going ships across the Indian Ocean and mined gold in Indonesia. The whole Malayo-Polynesian set of languages stretches from Madagascar to Formosa and steles in that alphabet have been found on the American Pacific Coast.

Oh this is already too long and I haven't even discussed the statistical calculations of how human gene pools change over time. Let it be enough to just say that the ignoramuses who have tried to claim science in drawing conclusions about the Book of Mormon peoples will before another hundred years goes by be looked back on as the true idiots they are. Too many over-the-top assumptions, and gross factual errors, to prove anything.

exploding-head-2.jpg
 

lol. . . .

Could just as well be almost any current scientist with his name tag attending a current seminar on this subject. . . . or you as well as me.

Just please note that a Colton-style LDS person can find acceptance within his LDS ward as a scientist, while perhaps humoring others with various other views. Thanks to an LDS scientist named Henry E. Eyring who was quite prominent in his day, winning the Priestly Medal, being the originator of the much-used Absolute Rate Theory and an innovator in applying mathematical tools in studying chemistry. Eyring influenced the LDS Church to formal withdraw from doctrinal stands not in accord with science, saying "Our religion embraces all truth". In regard to various so-called controversies posing conflicts between science and religion, perhaps as understood by folks who just didn't have the knowledge, language, or training to restrict their beliefs to incontrovertible "fact" as "established" by the perpetually-changing views of scientists of any given time, Eyring would often say he didn't know everything, and his faith did not require him to know everything, only to believe in God, who does know everything. And who hasn't told us everything yet.

The problem with religions codified by texts written thousands of years ago is the tendency, whether necessary or not, of some to feel they don't need to think any more.
 
I am part of a Legume phylogeny Lab so believe me I know about the statistics of DNA.

The thing is statistics is based on chance, however once you have this chance and extend it over the three billion base pairs that humans have in their genome... You can almost certainly take the statistics as being accurate. I know that the science community out there does, I guess it is not good enough for others... The professor makes a living by analysis such statistics. It's good enough evidence for people to make good livings studying it.

Its not just the overwhelming DNA evidence, its the overwhelming DNA evidence compounded with the fact that they share lingual similarities, and only Native Americans and East Asians have shovel-type incisors.

I don't see how you can make an argument saying that the Scientific data out there is not supporting the complete opposite of the Book of Mormon is saying... I'm not saying that the scientific evidence is not necessarily 100% proof. I'm just saying you cannot completely dismiss it because it doesn't agree with what you believe.
 
Does that embrace of all truths extend to theories that directly contradict the typical definition of creation? Evolution for an example? What percentage of Mormons in your estimate accepts evolution?
 
I am part of a Legume phylogeny Lab so believe me I know about the statistics of DNA.

The thing is statistics is based on chance, however once you have this chance and extend it over the three billion base pairs that humans have in their genome... You can almost certainly take the statistics as being accurate. I know that the science community out there does, I guess it is not good enough for others... The professor makes a living by analysis such statistics. It's good enough evidence for people to make good livings studying it.

Its not just the overwhelming DNA evidence, its the overwhelming DNA evidence compounded with the fact that they share lingual similarities, and only Native Americans and East Asians have shovel-type incisors.

I don't see how you can make an argument saying that the Scientific data out there is not supporting the complete opposite of the Book of Mormon is saying... I'm not saying that the scientific evidence is not necessarily 100% proof. I'm just saying you cannot completely dismiss it because it doesn't agree with what you believe.

But isn't this exactly what you do? Or do you have a scientific explanation for Moses parting the Red Sea?
 
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