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Reasons you left the LDS church.

I'm not going to deny that there are supernatural elements to the Quran. For example the Jinn, or spirits made of smokeless fire, moses and the red sea, stuff like this is in the Quran. What the Quran doesn't have is descriptions of the world or science that is simply not believed to be true. (Another scientific miracle I forgot to mention for example is it says moon has borrowed or reflected light and the Sun is a lamp or has its own light).

Like I said 1/6th of the Koran talks about the world and science. None of it has been deemed false. If the Quran said that Native Americans came from Israel or that black people are descended from cursed people I would have not converted (I'm not saying this is true for LDS necessarily).
 
I'm not going to deny that there are supernatural elements to the Quran. For example the Jinn, or spirits made of smokeless fire, moses and the red sea, stuff like this is in the Quran. What the Quran doesn't have is descriptions of the world or science that is simply not believed to be true. (Another scientific miracle I forgot to mention for example is it says moon has borrowed or reflected light and the Sun is a lamp or has its own light).

Like I said 1/6th of the Koran talks about the world and science. None of it has been deemed false. If the Quran said that Native Americans came from Israel or that black people are descended from cursed people I would have not converted (I'm not saying this is true for LDS necessarily).

Like how Dhul Qarnayn traveled to the end of the earth, to the place where the sun sets, and watched it set into a boiling see? Or is that also just the supernatural will of god? Perhaps I'm misreading it? Oh wait, it must be metaphorical. I find it hard to keep track of the different categories of apologetics.

My point is, your scientific inaccuracies are meaningless. Maybe god deleted the DNA evidence to test our faith? Who knows! Anything can be turned into anything if you really wanted to believe.
 
Like how Dhul Qarnayn traveled to the end of the earth, to the place where the sun sets, and watched it set into a boiling see? Or is that also just the supernatural will of god? Perhaps I'm misreading it? Oh wait, it must be metaphorical. I find it hard to keep track of the different categories of apologetics.

My point is, your scientific inaccuracies are meaningless. Maybe god deleted the DNA evidence to test our faith? Who knows! Anything can be turned into anything if you really wanted to believe.

It specifically says that it appeared Dhul Qarnayn to set in boiling sea (some translations say murky water) it doesn't say it goes in Murky water. Also, it says he traveled until sunset not until he reached the place of sunset.

It simply says he reached murky water at sunset (as in time).
 
Does that embrace of all truths extend to theories that directly contradict the typical definition of creation? Evolution for an example? What percentage of Mormons in your estimate accepts evolution?

A poll of LDS folks would yield statistically different results from such a poll of most other Christian sects.

Among Mormons there will be some who don't believe in evolution in any sense. None of these would be put on trial for their church standing. There would be maybe about half who incorporate evolutionary time frames and processes into their best guess about how living things were created by God. Again, there is no doctrinal requirement to accept this view. In many more Bible-text oriented "mainstream" Christian Churches people who think like this would be looked at as insecure in their faith in an almighty sovereign God capable of creating everything as it is and as it appears and as it functions. No holds barred. Among Mormons it is often a belief that God uses natural laws and abides by them. . . . . not so much emphasis on the ultimate origin of things, which exposes to Mormons to criticism that they believe in a different sort of God. . .

A large portionof Mormons would simply say it doesn't matter how it happened, they personally and directly belief in God and "know" God loves them quite unconditionally, and they love Him quite unconditionally too.

The "typical idea of creation" went out the Mormon window with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, who taught that man and life was brought here from other planets some time after this earth was created some 4.5 Billion years ago. Well, in the current age the LDS Church does not stress this view, and tries not to aggravate the perceptions or prejudices of other "Christians", settling more for the idea that what is important is our belief in Jesus and His Gospel. Centering on living lives that reflect personally on the moral teachings if not intellectual views.

Maybe a few less religiously- centered Mormons actually believe in "Evolution". Probably some very inactive or merely socially-oriented Mormons are pretty weak even on believing in God at all. It's pretty much a "Church of the Open Door" where you actually can "come as you are" provided you are not obnoxiously strident in trying to impose your views on others.

Church leaders sometimes hold forth fairly eloquently on their views and may be more scriptural or doctrinal in their pronouncements, but these leaders change in the process of time, and some authorities get well-ignored by most LDS in succeeding generations. Once in a while, even the scriptural texts will be updated when the unanimously perceived need arises. There are members who sometimes speak about in regard to the pros and cons of these changes. . . . There is a claim that if there is any contradiction between authoritative present teachings, and scriptures, the scriptures prevail. . . . while emphasizing the need to support current leaders and emphasis as a practical matter.

I think someone like Henry E. Eyring would have encouraged people to think and ask questions. Well, actually I don't have to say "I think". I know. I worked for him for twelve years. One of his sons, "Ted" was my bishop at the University of Utah, and I don't think I ever had anyone in "authority" who promoted inquiry with the level of acceptance and encouragement he did. Another pretty good scientist, like his father.
 
Does that embrace of all truths extend to theories that directly contradict the typical definition of creation? Evolution for an example? What percentage of Mormons in your estimate accepts evolution?

I can't speak to the percentages, but I'm a mormon that accepts evolution. It's fairly difficult to rationally argue that it doesn't exist and hasn't played a part in the development of life on earth.

I would assert that people who will accept only "the typical definition of creation", as you call it, are those who have not done any real study on the subject, and are so entrenched in traditional dogma that they are unwilling to do so.

Personally, I don't see a conflict between science and scripture. If one considers that scripture was written by men who had little if any real scientific knowledge to base their writings on. They were given information tailored to their ability to understand. So you get "days" and the like used to describe creation.

There are a lot of other mormons that think like me. I don't know if it's many, or most, or some... But there is no reason to assume that God would work with a different set of scientific principles and laws than we do. The big difference is that we barely understand the basics. For example, there are still thousands (probably millions) of things just about human physiology that we don't really understand.

Looks like I'm blathering, so I'll wrap this up. You get what I'm driving at though, right?
 
It specifically says that it appeared Dhul Qarnayn to set in boiling sea (some translations say murky water) it doesn't say it goes in Murky water. Also, it says he traveled until sunset not until he reached the place of sunset.

It simply says he reached murky water at sunset (as in time).

18:85 And he followed a road
18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: "O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness."
18:89 Then he followed a road
18:90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.

The meaning is clear.
 
A poll of LDS folks would yield statistically different results from such a poll of most other Christian sects.

Among Mormons there will be some who don't believe in evolution in any sense. None of these would be put on trial for their church standing. There would be maybe about half who incorporate evolutionary time frames and processes into their best guess about how living things were created by God. Again, there is no doctrinal requirement to accept this view. In many more Bible-text oriented "mainstream" Christian Churches people who think like this would be looked at as insecure in their faith in an almighty sovereign God capable of creating everything as it is and as it appears and as it functions. No holds barred. Among Mormons it is often a belief that God uses natural laws and abides by them. . . . . not so much emphasis on the ultimate origin of things, which exposes to Mormons to criticism that they believe in a different sort of God. . .

A large portionof Mormons would simply say it doesn't matter how it happened, they personally and directly belief in God and "know" God loves them quite unconditionally, and they love Him quite unconditionally too.

The "typical idea of creation" went out the Mormon window with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, who taught that man and life was brought here from other planets some time after this earth was created some 4.5 Billion years ago. Well, in the current age the LDS Church does not stress this view, and tries not to aggravate the perceptions or prejudices of other "Christians", settling more for the idea that what is important is our belief in Jesus and His Gospel. Centering on living lives that reflect personally on the moral teachings if not intellectual views.

Maybe a few less religiously- centered Mormons actually believe in "Evolution". Probably some very inactive or merely socially-oriented Mormons are pretty weak even on believing in God at all. It's pretty much a "Church of the Open Door" where you actually can "come as you are" provided you are not obnoxiously strident in trying to impose your views on others.

Church leaders sometimes hold forth fairly eloquently on their views and may be more scriptural or doctrinal in their pronouncements, but these leaders change in the process of time, and some authorities get well-ignored by most LDS in succeeding generations. Once in a while, even the scriptural texts will be updated when the unanimously perceived need arises. There are members who sometimes speak about in regard to the pros and cons of these changes. . . . There is a claim that if there is any contradiction between authoritative present teachings, and scriptures, the scriptures prevail. . . . while emphasizing the need to support current leaders and emphasis as a practical matter.

I think someone like Henry E. Eyring would have encouraged people to think and ask questions. Well, actually I don't have to say "I think". I know. I worked for him for twelve years. One of his sons, "Ted" was my bishop at the University of Utah, and I don't think I ever had anyone in "authority" who promoted inquiry with the level of acceptance and encouragement he did. Another pretty good scientist, like his father.

That's too long winded a way to say "not many at all". Fitting creatures into a timeline like you're solving a jigsaw puzzle has nothing to do with evolution at all. And it demonstrates what I'm saying. What is the point of "asking questions", if you already know the answers? Simply to provide information for a new ideological paint job? Just trying to imagine such an outlook gives me a headache. :p
 
I am part of a Legume phylogeny Lab so believe me I know about the statistics of DNA.

The thing is statistics is based on chance, however once you have this chance and extend it over the three billion base pairs that humans have in their genome... You can almost certainly take the statistics as being accurate. I know that the science community out there does, I guess it is not good enough for others... The professor makes a living by analysis such statistics. It's good enough evidence for people to make good livings studying it.

Its not just the overwhelming DNA evidence, its the overwhelming DNA evidence compounded with the fact that they share lingual similarities, and only Native Americans and East Asians have shovel-type incisors.

I don't see how you can make an argument saying that the Scientific data out there is not supporting the complete opposite of the Book of Mormon is saying... I'm not saying that the scientific evidence is not necessarily 100% proof. I'm just saying you cannot completely dismiss it because it doesn't agree with what you believe.

You apparently feel pretty confident there are not any possiblities but what you insist are relevant. In this case you are following the trend in supposing the general view of man's origins go back some 1.2 million years in Africa, maybe supported by mRNA studies which at best indicate there were only seven women living 120,000 years ago whose mRNA is still being propagated, and that because of the probabilities of breeding is likely to narrow with the elimination in the next ten thousand years of the mRNA of at least two of those.

A survey of chemical reactions would reveal that there is a necessity to estimate the probability of catalysis, or some favorable natural process that can operate on better-than-calculated Thermodynamics. A lot of reactions just wouldn't happen. Oh, like photosynthesis, for example. In the whole biological realm, the evidence of something operating to improve the chances for life/survival could hardly be ignored unless you just want to. There is actually an active discussion of some of these in evolutionary science.

Hopefully, those considerations can be controlled for in your laboratory research projects, or maybe under your circumstances they will not be relevant. . . . hopefully. And yet in the case of pathological bacteria, it has taken less than 70 years to create antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Meanwhile, perhaps you could review the generalities of the emerging evidence that life was here in the Americas beginning in more than one place, including possibly a third in Brazil, well ahead of the "land bridge" and maybe even understand the rates of "genetic extinction" and the observed phenonmena of a good gene coming into a vast population and quickly becoming a dominant one in the statistical distribution.

Ten human generations every 300 years, meaning a thousand progenitors somewhere back there in time just 300 years ago. A billion just 1000 years ago. Think about it. You want to assume a steady state lasting over ten thousand years and call it "science".
 
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I haven't memorized what verse belongs where in the Book of Mormons but can anyone say where it says about the Native American thing. I thought it said they traveled from Israel to here and became the Native Americans. I didn't think it said become part of the Native Americans. If it says "part of" the Native Americans then you might have a case.
 
I haven't memorized what verse belongs where in the Book of Mormons but can anyone say where it says about the Native American thing. I thought it said they traveled from Israel to here and became the Native Americans.

Nope. Doesn't say that, dude. What anti-mormon website do you get your info from if you don't mind me asking?
 
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