Renewed Faith - Secret to our recent success?
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
I don't know that that puts us at odds .. I didn't really read it. I know. That makes me a bad person.
I do think the perception of the 'religious' is too thin-skinned .. which makes them an easy target and subject to what some would call abuse. I am a non-denominational Christian .. and you can call me any bad word you want. Some can even attack 'my' Jesus. I have enough wisdom to know the difference between those that are being 'cute' and those that are seriously attacking souls.
If I'm out to dinner with my wife and a guy gives her the eye .. so what. If a guy says she's hot, so what? If a guy grabs her arm and tries to drag he to his table .. it's on.
/my take
If I'm out to dinner with my wife and a guy gives her the eye .. so what. If a guy says she's hot, so what? If a guy grabs her arm and tries to drag he to his table .. it's on.
/my take
JimLes
Well-Known Member
I would have no problem if this stretched into other areas of life, but it doesn't. I know it doesn't in yours, as you would not be on this board if it did.
Why is religion different than music taste, political opinions, or sports fandom? Do you ever treat any of these with little regard or with contempt? Do you ever make fun of other NBA teams? Other players? Bands? Politicians? Is all that okay? Why is religion special then?
Oh, I know. You'll get offended at this too, as I'm comparing religion to sports, but to me it's the same thing. Some people choose to believe an old man lives in the sky and runs their lives, so they should love his son very much, and some people believe that if the Nuggets win tomorrow, it validates them as a person and makes them share in that success.
Ah, but religion is a deeply personal and important thing to you, whereas sports are just entertainment, right? Never mind the fact that you choose to believe whatever you believe much the same way someone chooses to follow a sports team. Who am I to judge which one of those is sacred and which one is banal?
I try not to offend people I care about, but that's more than just religion. I wouldn't make fun of my best friend's Catholic faith in the same way I would not make fun of my girlfriend from having a Katy Perry CD in her car. I think little of both, but these are people I think the world of. By the same token, I also do not feel the need to stand up to racists, anti-Semites, 9/11 conspiracy theories, or people who don't like the Beatles. All these should in theory offend me, yet I don't even think about it. Why worry about irrelevant things?
The difference to me is that what I believe about my religious views gives me answers to why I am alive, and the point of why I am here, and helps me identify what I am trying to accomplish in life. The other things are things to do while I am alive, but are peripheral items that are experienced in life while not being integral to my life. To me there is nothing sacred about politics, sports, or music taste, but there is something sacred about my religion to me. This is the difference, and why I might stand up for something that has to do with my religion or something I find to be sacred.
If I know someone I am conversing with finds music to be sacred to them, then I will do my best not to offend them by saying something I know will be offensive to them. That's just courtesy that should be common, and has less to do with religion as it does with respect for others.
You comparing religion to sports does not bother me, most things either don't bother me, or I let them go. As to judging what someone thinks is sacred, that's not the point. It's about respecting other people around you. I don't care if you find toe jam to be sacred to you, I will try to respect you about it even if I think that it is silly, or dumb.
You choose not to offend your friend or girlfriend because you respect them. You choose to not filter words that will offend other people because you do not respect those people. What happened to the days when respect was common and had to be lost, similar to the whole "innocent until proven guilty" idea. This point is not to you specifically but about Americans in general.
Thoughts lead to words, and words lead to actions. If we know about racists, anti-Semites, or we don't stand up for issues we think are important... are we showing implicit agreement to the other side. Racists need to be called on their words and actions and held accountable otherwise they may see it as you agree. Too many Americans are apathetic to involvement in things, and making stands for things for the most part. Less and less people go to vote, and less and less people let their representatives know what they feel. This is part of why minority groups get what they want, they speak up, and they are loud... and even if the majority does not agree, if they do nothing the minority group gets their way. I understand not stressing over things that don't matter that you disagree with, but at some point we need to stand up and be heard about the things that do make a difference and do matter.
That was just my soapbox based on some things you said, it's not really directed at you.
I do enjoy communication and conversation, and I enjoy jokes and fun too. I just hope we can have more respect, and stand up for what we believe is important. I can respect some of the posters on this board that stand up for things like legalizing mary jane, or some of the other things that I don't agree with. I may not agree with them, but I can respect them.
Does 1 of every 10 threads on the Utah Jazz portion of the forum have to turn into a religious discussion?
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to JazzSpazz again.
Very, very well said my friend.
Just because I don't agree with that point does not mean you are a bad person, and so what if we are at odds on a point.
There are plenty of people that are friends that disagree on more than one point and they can still be friends.
The disagreement part is not really that big of a deal.
Must have been in the woods with nobody around to hear it.
//r00t 4 Jazz
Well-Known Member
Made me laugh.
Also how come nobody has brought up how this effects Hayward, I mean when they close the session with "amen" does he say thank you? Does he get embarrassed or shy, or is he so humble he just remains silent. I think this is what is being missed in the article and should really be discussed.
Are any of his teammates Catholic? Does he see them as cannibals?
The article says that half the players go to the chapel. How does that bring the team together? Half and half don't, that sounds like division to me, splitting the team in half.
Why do the the wishes and feelings of the non-believers get ignored? Why should religion and its practice have anything to do with a basketball team? Do these guys not have enough time to get their religion on their own time? There is always a subtle exclusionary aspect to these sorts of things: "Oh, you don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior?" How do you counter that without being offensive?
The old line is to avoid confrontations do not discuss religion or politics. I think the same ought to apply to the workplace: there is no room there for religious practices. Do it on personal time and leave it at home.
Why do the the wishes and feelings of the non-believers get ignored? Why should religion and its practice have anything to do with a basketball team? Do these guys not have enough time to get their religion on their own time? There is always a subtle exclusionary aspect to these sorts of things: "Oh, you don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior?" How do you counter that without being offensive?
The old line is to avoid confrontations do not discuss religion or politics. I think the same ought to apply to the workplace: there is no room there for religious practices. Do it on personal time and leave it at home.
I am sorry but what a horrible post. Division? Ignoring the non believers? Give me a break. The ones that want to participate can. They go to a seperate, private room do their thing and come back. They do not demand the other participate. They do not hold it in the locker room so that the others have to listen. The others that do not participate could holdvany type of special meeting or ceremony they wished before games if they wanted. The only division is coming from you and people that get mad that others are loyal to their beliefs.
I am not Muslim. But If I worked with coworkers that were and they went into a private room to hold their prayers and other ceremonies I would be fine with that. Especially if I had an open invitation to attend but nothing was forced or pressured. Good for them for being men that believe in something.
I really do not neg rep but your post is really pushing the limits.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
And i heartily disagree with you sir.
Good for you.
At least you have heart.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
I used to think this way when I was younger, too. Not all battles are mine to fight. We have a board member here who spouts of racist stuff on regular basis, even though I sometimes suspect that much of it is with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek. If I wasn't a long time reader of this board (and of a series of old ones), I might assume that everyone around here is a racist because they do not bother to correct him or stand up to him much. Worse yet, I may stretch that and assume that stereotypes about Utahns and Mormons are true.
Or I can just look at the fact that he has 2,143 posts and nearly every one of them has something prejudiced in it. If I criticized him every time he called someone a hopper, I'd have 2,144 posts. And I just don't have that kind of time. There are other things in life I ought to save my outrage for. Like the fact that Thompson and Cousins will probably have 20 offensive rebounds between them tonight.
I suppose we agree in theory, just disagree on the practical implementation. Welcome to my life as an educator.
I used to think this way when I was younger, too. Not all battles are mine to fight. We have a board member here who spouts of racist stuff on regular basis, even though I sometimes suspect that much of it is with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek. If I wasn't a long time reader of this board (and of a series of old ones), I might assume that everyone around here is a racist because they do not bother to correct him or stand up to him much. Worse yet, I may stretch that and assume that stereotypes about Utahns and Mormons are true.
Or I can just look at the fact that he has 2,143 posts and nearly every one of them has something prejudiced in it. If I criticized him every time he called someone a hopper, I'd have 2,144 posts. And I just don't have that kind of time. There are other things in life I ought to save my outrage for. Like the fact that Thompson and Cousins will probably have 20 offensive rebounds between them tonight.
I suppose we agree in theory, just disagree on the practical implementation. Welcome to my life as an educator.
To me real world application of my beliefs is much more logical that applying them over the internet. Ther person could be anyone or anything. The could completely disagree with what they post. Who knnows? Now if I see some one doing something racist or sexist...in real life then I will stand up and say something.
Real world does not equal internet.