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RIP Phillip Seymour Hoffman

ElRoach0 said:
Stick that in your credibility pipe and pretend to smoke it you "I wanna be cool but can't", "Mamma's Boys Nephite shirt" wearin, root beer drinking girly man.

I'm surprised they didn't disqualify you from your grappling match for hitting with your purse.
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Very "troutesque"

Good job roacho
 
ElRoach0 said:
I'd like to introduce you to Mario Capecchi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Capecchi

Again, NOBEL PRIZE WINNING, Mario Capecchi. Nobel prize in 2007 for Physiology or Medicine.. his field of Physiology or Medicine?

Genetics.

Stick that in your credibility pipe and pretend to smoke it you "I wanna be cool but can't", "Mamma's Boys Nephite shirt" wearin, root beer drinking girly man.

I'm surprised they didn't disqualify you from your grappling match for hitting with your purse.
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Dude that seriously made me LOL. I'll try to remember to rep you next time I'm not on the app.
 
good to know. that my opinion on pitty/sadness management is not very popular.
fact is dude practically commited suicde.

there are lots of worse things in the world. than some rich famous dude killing himself.
he does not deserve a thread.
we could have used this thread space on another corbin sucks or some such thread. cus corbin is commiting homocide on jazz futre for past 3 seasons
 
DutchJazzer said:
good to know. that my opinion on pitty/sadness management is not very popular.
fact is dude practically commited suicde.

there are lots of worse things in the world. than some rich famous dude killing himself.
he does not deserve a thread.
we could have used this thread space on another corbin sucks or some such thread. cus corbin is commiting homocide on jazz futre for past 3 seasons
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Ending strong. GG Bronies, see you in the showers!
 
ElRoach0 said:
Ahem.

https://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/genes/

I believe the entire genetics department of the University of Utah would like to have a word with you. Along with half the staff in the detox unit.
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I don't think there is an argument in the scientific community whether addiction is inheritable but I do not like it being used in this context. People do have personal responsibility and in fact Hoffman spent 30 years effectively managing and overcoming his problems with addiction.
He did have a disease but ultimately he must be given the credit for his actions.

Likewise scape goating addicts as deserving of death is dehumanizing. It is reminiscent of eugenics especially when pared with the argument that the human gene pool is better off without them. In fact it is a definitive eugenics statement and I cannot think of a more apt assessment of this attitude.

I find it alarming that people from all sides so often use genetics to validate ethical positions, human relationships, and right from wrong. If we use genetics to define our ethics and morality we will destroy any decent concept of either.
 
heyhey said:
I don't think there is an argument in the scientific community whether addiction is inheritable but I do not like it being used in this context. People do have personal responsibility and in fact Hoffman spent 30 years effectively managing and overcoming his problems with addiction.
He did have a disease but ultimately he must be given the credit for his actions.

Likewise scape goating addicts as deserving of death is dehumanizing. It is reminiscent of eugenics especially when pared with the argument that the human gene pool is better off without them. In fact it is a definitive eugenics statement and I cannot think of a more apt assessment of this attitude.

I find it alarming that people from all sides so often use genetics to validate ethical positions, human relationships, and right from wrong. If we use genetics to define our ethics and morality we will destroy any decent concept of either.
Click to expand...

I never used eugenics.
it is sad that we live in a world where everything is turned into a disease.
have kids drugged up on all sorts of crap.

I had ADHD you now what cured it. god old fashioned beating by my father. now dont mistake the beating i got with. not battery or assualt just god old fashioned beating.
i'll have that anyday over all those drugs.
i was a devil in schools a handfull got expelled a gazillion times, looking back at it all i could have all blamed it on some dissease and escape a lot of punsihment.
damm missed out on all those games and tv shows i could not watch because of punishment.
because i had to bear the consequences of MY ACTIONS. not the actions of some disease. MINE.

so yeah it turns my stomach that everything is slowly turning into a disease.

being weak minded and blaming others(or diseases) for your faults has nothing to do with eugenics.

quit feeling sorry for PSH, it was his own fault his own repsonsiblity. just enjoy his movie save your pity and sadness for all the women getting raped all over the world by men with rapey disease
 
Archie Moses said:
Lol. Beatings cures ADHD. What's next? Beat the gays, the alcoholics, and the depressed?
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no just saying, we should not feel pity or sorry for psh.
his actions had consequences for him.

the world would be a far better place if we start holding people accountable instead of blaming it on diseases(or as they say "genetics).

by this pity/sadness/rip stuf they are saying its okay to not hold people accountable for his actions.

but whatevers bro.
 
DutchJazzer said:
no just saying, we should not feel pity or sorry for psh.
his actions had consequences for him.

the world would be a far better place if we start holding people accountable instead of blaming it on diseases(or as they say "genetics).

by this pity/sadness/rip stuf they are saying its okay to not hold people accountable for his actions.

but whatevers bro.
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The guy died. He's paid the ultimate price in accountability for his actions

Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
heyhey said:
I don't think there is an argument in the scientific community whether addiction is inheritable but I do not like it being used in this context. People do have personal responsibility and in fact Hoffman spent 30 years effectively managing and overcoming his problems with addiction.
He did have a disease but ultimately he must be given the credit for his actions.

Likewise scape goating addicts as deserving of death is dehumanizing. It is reminiscent of eugenics especially when pared with the argument that the human gene pool is better off without them. In fact it is a definitive eugenics statement and I cannot think of a more apt assessment of this attitude.

I find it alarming that people from all sides so often use genetics to validate ethical positions, human relationships, and right from wrong. If we use genetics to define our ethics and morality we will destroy any decent concept of either.
Click to expand...

DutchJazzer said:
I never used eugenics.
it is sad that we live in a world where everything is turned into a disease.
have kids drugged up on all sorts of crap.

I had ADHD you now what cured it. god old fashioned beating by my father. now dont mistake the beating i got with. not battery or assualt just god old fashioned beating.
i'll have that anyday over all those drugs.
i was a devil in schools a handfull got expelled a gazillion times, looking back at it all i could have all blamed it on some dissease and escape a lot of punsihment.
damm missed out on all those games and tv shows i could not watch because of punishment.
because i had to bear the consequences of MY ACTIONS. not the actions of some disease. MINE.

so yeah it turns my stomach that everything is slowly turning into a disease.

being weak minded and blaming others(or diseases) for your faults has nothing to do with eugenics.

quit feeling sorry for PSH, it was his own fault his own repsonsiblity. just enjoy his movie save your pity and sadness for all the women getting raped all over the world by men with rapey disease
Click to expand...

I used to feel the same way you guys do. I used to think that overweight people just needed to eat less, exercise more. Lazy people just needed to get off their asses and do something. Alcoholics just needed to not drink. Drug addicts needed to just stop taking drugs. Pretty simple stuff, really. Right?

Wrong.

I just typed up a full page about having ADHD and how a combination of luck and the correct medicine has changed my life, and my family's lives for the better, but meh... It didn't translate as well as I had hoped. The fact is, my brain is wired differently than other peoples. Just like yours is different than mine, your boss, your neighbor, etc. Different chemicals in my brain work differently than certain chemicals do in your brain, and vise versa. When those chemicals are out of balance, it becomes much harder, and often times, near impossible to reach the goals or whatever you're trying to reach by yourself. If you've never struggled with weight problems, depression, addiction, or any inner demons, then you're lucky (and probably full of ****), but for the rest of us, we have to figure out how to deal with them. Some people can just quit smoking cold turkey, and it works. Some people can just wake up one day and say, "I'm going to the gym five days a week until I'm not fat anymore" and they do it. Some people realize that drugs are killing them and they stop. Most people don't make it when they "quit cold turkey". Most people stop going to the gym after the 1st week in January. Most people stay hooked on drugs.

Why is it that some people can and some can't? I smoked like a chimney for five years and quit cold turkey. It was the easiest thing I've ever done. I don't understand why more people can't do it. On the flip side, getting out of bed when my alarm went off in the morning was pretty much the hardest thing on the planet for me to do; even if it meant I'd lose my job, be suspended from school, or my dad would beat the **** out of me. I failed at that aspect of my life for 20+ years. That is, until I figured out what the problem was, got the chemicals in my brain back on track, and started on the path to recovery. Thank the stars that my issues were easily solved. People who struggle with drug, alcohol, and other addictions don't have it so easy. There is no miracle pill. (yet) People have to struggle with what God gave them, and for some people, it isn't much. I don't know if I would call it a disease, and if you don't like the term, then fine, I can see that. It is a real problem, however, and it's not one that is as simple as "eat less, exercise more". Life in general, both personally and in the world around me, took on a whole new meaning when I finally realized and believed that fact.

tl;dr

It's not as simple as you think. If you can't dunk a basketball, you can't just wake up tomorrow and say, I'm going to dunk this ball because I REALLY WANT TO. The human brain isn't wired like that.
 
^^

Meh. That's my uneducated two cents. Take it for what it's worth; it sure reads like a bag of dino-dung.

The Utes, 49'ers, Broncos, Lakers, and the Dutch are all lame.
 
I knew I would get from both sides for that post but I stand by it

DutchJazzer said:
I never used eugenics.
it is sad that we live in a world where everything is turned into a disease.
have kids drugged up on all sorts of crap.
Click to expand...

When you callously disregard the value of someones life based on the health of the gene pool then eugenics is a fair term to describe your position.

E.J. Wells said:
I used to feel the same way you guys do. I used to think that overweight people just needed to eat less, exercise more. Lazy people just needed to get off their asses and do something. Alcoholics just needed to not drink. Drug addicts needed to just stop taking drugs. Pretty simple stuff, really. Right?

Wrong.

I just typed up a full page about having ADHD and how a combination of luck and the correct medicine has changed my life, and my family's lives for the better, but meh... It didn't translate as well as I had hoped. The fact is, my brain is wired differently than other peoples. Just like yours is different than mine, your boss, your neighbor, etc. Different chemicals in my brain work differently than certain chemicals do in your brain, and vise versa. When those chemicals are out of balance, it becomes much harder, and often times, near impossible to reach the goals or whatever you're trying to reach by yourself. If you've never struggled with weight problems, depression, addiction, or any inner demons, then you're lucky (and probably full of ****), but for the rest of us, we have to figure out how to deal with them. Some people can just quit smoking cold turkey, and it works. Some people can just wake up one day and say, "I'm going to the gym five days a week until I'm not fat anymore" and they do it. Some people realize that drugs are killing them and they stop. Most people don't make it when they "quit cold turkey". Most people stop going to the gym after the 1st week in January. Most people stay hooked on drugs.

Why is it that some people can and some can't? I smoked like a chimney for five years and quit cold turkey. It was the easiest thing I've ever done. I don't understand why more people can't do it. On the flip side, getting out of bed when my alarm went off in the morning was pretty much the hardest thing on the planet for me to do; even if it meant I'd lose my job, be suspended from school, or my dad would beat the **** out of me. I failed at that aspect of my life for 20+ years. That is, until I figured out what the problem was, got the chemicals in my brain back on track, and started on the path to recovery. Thank the stars that my issues were easily solved. People who struggle with drug, alcohol, and other addictions don't have it so easy. There is no miracle pill. (yet) People have to struggle with what God gave them, and for some people, it isn't much. I don't know if I would call it a disease, and if you don't like the term, then fine, I can see that. It is a real problem, however, and it's not one that is as simple as "eat less, exercise more". Life in general, both personally and in the world around me, took on a whole new meaning when I finally realized and believed that fact.

tl;dr

It's not as simple as you think. If you can't dunk a basketball, you can't just wake up tomorrow and say, I'm going to dunk this ball because I REALLY WANT TO. The human brain isn't wired like that.
Click to expand...

I actually whole heartedly agree with you but, I will not condemn anyone to a sort of cultural prison based on their genetics. All I was saying is that while his addiction(disease) contributed to his death his inability to manage it is what caused his death. I know that kicking an addiction is hard but I would not rob him of his dignity by saying he was helpless.

I have been a raging alchoholic(sober for a year and a half I have to keep myself from buying a bottle daily) and I still have not managed to quit smoking. I truly hope that if I should die of liver failure or lung cancer that no one would cheapen my life and the value of the decisions I made by claiming them to be beyond my control. I would rather be remembered as a man that made mistakes than one that didn't have the ability to decide for himself.
 
So you're saying you really don't want to quit then?

Assuming that you DO want to quit, why haven't you? Because you choose not to? But you just said that you did want to quit. So which is it? You do or you don't want to quit?



Or is it that you really want to, but for some damn reason, you can't do it? It's not always black and white, yo.
 
Dutch is completely missing the point. The stance of "someone who died as a result of bad choices should not be mourned" makes absolutely no sense. Regardless of his personal demons, he was a talented man. Maybe we lost a junkie, but we also lost an artist. To me, that's the important part.


Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
E.J. Wells said:
So you're saying you really don't want to quit then?

Assuming that you DO want to quit, why haven't you? Because you choose not to? But you just said that you did want to quit. So which is it? You do or you don't want to quit?



Or is it that you really want to, but for some damn reason, you can't do it? It's not always black and white, yo.
Click to expand...

It's not that I can't do it it is that I haven't managed to(yet hopefully). I know it sounds like semantics but I feel it is an important distinction.

I can it's just difficult.

A person that is diabetic has the responsibility to monitor their blood sugar, a person that has intense allergic reactions has the responsibility to carry an epi-pen, a manic-depressive to take their medication and see a therapist(if necessary), and an addict to take whatever steps may be necessary to manage their addiction. It isn't easy but I would never deny someone the dignity of hope and the ability to overcome by fatalistic statements or by relinquishing them of their responsibility.
 
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