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Should Obama stop this?

Should Obama stop HC jobs growth?

  • No, healthcare costs should continue growing

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Yes, these jobs are a detriment to the economy

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • Total voters
    3
One Brow said:
Actually, the article states that the standards of proof are the same as in civil court (preponderance of evidence), and that in practice, this means that is you suffer the routine side effects of a vaccine you are compensated pretty much automatically. The upside for vaccine manufacturers in the no-fault aspect: punitive damages are not awarded, avoiding million-dollar judgements. The courts are fair, and in practice, the standards are even easier to meet than in a normal civil court.

I think your interpretation of the article is a good example of your general accuracy in evaluating reality.

You are correct that the legislature was worried that the manufacturers would stop making vaccines entirely. Why would someone make a product that earns minimal profits and exposes them to huge amounts of risk?
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The primary difference between you and me does center on our acceptance of two different models of reality. It appears to me that perhaps when you go grocery shopping you read the labels on the cans, and feel secure in the notion that nobody would lie in a label like that. I, on the other hand, have worked in manufacturing plants and have done analytical work, and formulation work, on products, and written labels myself. Yes we have serious efforts at quality control, and hopefully very few products get out the door that aren't what is stated on the label.

The government, on the other hand, is all about spin. Yes the labels sound good, but who is watching the actual product. It's all about creating desired results for the most important clients.

I wish you were correct in your belief that a "special" court will maintain all the characteristics of a court that will justly serve the public. But the reason why the founders of this nation wanted to secure the right to a trial before a jury of common citizen "peers" for any issue where the value at stake was more than $20 bucks is precisely because they already had had plenty of experience with stacked courts staffed by servile patrons of corporate interests who had the ear of the King.

And the fact is, this "special court" that does not allow jury trials is unconstittutional.
 
babe said:
It appears to me that perhaps when you go grocery shopping you read the labels on the cans, and feel secure in the notion that nobody would lie in a label like that.
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If I believed that, and the more general things that would say about human behavior, I would be a libertarian calling for defunding the FDA. Any trust I have is in the limited benefit to lying (very few people carefully read labels) compared to the limited potential to face fines if caught lying. People will buy Sugar-Soaked Crunchies no matter what the label says, as long as Jim the Jaybird tells their kids how yummy it is.

babe said:
The government, on the other hand, is all about spin. Yes the labels sound good, but who is watching the actual product.
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Before the Progressive Era, when companies self-policed, it was much worse.

babe said:
And the fact is, this "special court" that does not allow jury trials is unconstittutional.
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As you could have read in the article, some plaintiffs are bypassing vaccine court. However, if you want to be compensated fully and quickly for your expenses, and are not interested in punitive damages, you really can't do better than go to vaccine court.
 
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One Brow said:
If I believed that, and the more general things that would say about human behavior, I would be a libertarian calling for defunding the FDA. Any trust I have is in the limited benefit to lying (very few people carefully read labels) compared to the limited potential to face fines if caught lying. People will buy Sugar-Soaked Crunchies no matter what the label says, as long as Jim the Jaybird tells their kids how yummy it is.



Before the Progressive Era, when companies self-policed, it was much worse.



As you could have read in the article, some plaintiffs are bypassing vaccine court. However, if you want to be compensated fully and quickly for your expenses, and are not interested in punitive damages, you really can't do better than go to vaccine court.
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I see you missed my transition from corporate realities to government realities.

I guess one example of mislabeled legislation would be the Utah "Taxpayers' Bill of Rights" passed about twenty years ago, which gave the taxpayer no rights and carefully corraled the citizens in an administrative process for dealing with complaints. It should have been labeled "State Perogatives In Collecting Taxes". Took the whole system out of any judicial jurisdiction.

A more recent example is the "Homeland Security Act" and the NDAA provisions for deconstructing what's left of human rights in this country, rendering citizens vulnerable to the whole gamut of government assaults. I consider the Healthcare legislation in the same light, in the name of budgetary priorities you lose actual rights to have health care of your choosing.

Oh, and back in those pre-progressive era days it was cartel interests/robber baron corporates operating without bothering to meddle with the government in the first place. It was a pure Machiavellian operation, creating the need for "help" from the government. And now, the reality is, those same interest, their contemporary equivalents, are managing our government very well, and maintaining their cartel interests and cash cow operations unabated, and even more lucratively than ever before.

I realize there are some things that the public is still having some inputs on, but it takes a lot of rabble noise to keep any of our interests noticed and protected. And, incredibly, the corporate interests have co-opted most of our Public Interest groups, and adroitly use them to keep the hurdles very high, well above what entry-level competitors can afford.

And in point of fact, my views/apprehensions are precisely why I agree with many Libertarian positions.
 
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One Brow said:
"Some instances" being "actual diseases".



I understand you on this topic fairly well. You're wrong, but not incomprehensible. YOu have to be "better" at something, and science has definitely come up with medicines that are better at treating specific conditions than any known natural remedy.

Real medicine causes changes in body chemistry. Any time body chemistry actually changes, there are effects. Some of these effects are not helpfulto fighting the disease, these are "side effects". Any putative treatment that does not have potential side effects is not medicine.

If I had to choose between living for thirty years breathing as I do without my medicines, or twenty years with my medicines, I'll take the twenty. In fact, I could go even say that for 20 and 10. They improve my life that much. However, the truth is that without my medicine, I might not be alive right now.
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Un-natural changes that will never be understood until years from now.
I trust mother earth, and you trust man.
We can agree to disagree here.
 
This thread just got a lot more interesting. Not that babe, brow, and silencer trying to out-pontificate each other isn't immensely entertaining.
 
TheSilencer1313 said:
.I trust mother earth, and you trust man.
We can agree to disagree here.
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Absolutely. You trust in an pseudo-entity that has killed off 99.9% of the species who have ever lived, I trust in the self-interest of the fellow members of my species. I agree to disagree with your position.
 
One Brow said:
Absolutely. You trust in an pseudo-entity that has killed off 99.9% of the species who have ever lived, I trust in the self-interest of the fellow members of my species. I agree to disagree with your position.
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It's all good but......
The one thing I don't understand from your point of view, is the fact that you believe man-made chemicals can actually cure the body.... while-as you also do not believe that vitamins and nutrients can.

I can provide many many doctors books to the contrary, and especially to the vaccine issue.

It's easy for me to see, considering I and my daughter never get sick while everyone else is complaining about getting colds, flu's, and strep throat.
I've also handled money and worked with the public for almost 4 years now.
Money..... the dirtiest, most germ riddled item around.
 
I can provide many many books, many written by college professors and Ph.D's, that prove aliens, Bigfoot, Nessie, and Ghosts exist.

It's easy for me to see.
 
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