Should Obama stop this?

[babe]

OB is apparently On Board for the duration.

Well, I worked for a few years in labs where immunology was the point of research. I was the pair of hands who made monoclonal antibodies, purified them, and tested their effectiveness.

Before that, I innoculated little animals with various proteins so they would develop useful antibodies which I could use later to identify or track those specific proteins in human blood circulation. Oh, ya, I had to collect the blood specimens from the people with the diseases too. And put it all through a lot of purification steps to isolate them, and then prepare them for the amino acid sequencer, and so forth. That was about the time DNA techniques were coming into use for the same studies.

Well, having some knowledge of how vaccines are made, including the media used in their production, and all that is not done to clean them up, the fact is for every vaccine you receive, you're being "vaccinated" for a lot of other proteins too. You will develop antibodies to these substances, mostly animal proteins with large homologies with human proteins that serve the same general functions in living systems, and with a statistical certainty you will develop autoimmune disease of some kind. Mostly inconsequential perhaps in a normal life span, and those that become debilitating conditions occur at some rate in humans anyway, so we'll be slow to accept the vaccines as a proven cause, like in the case of autism.

I still use vaccines in my work, and I understand the debates over pros and cons. I go out of my way to get communicable diseases from natural sources so I will develop natural immunity without exposing myself to those autoimmune diseases. Well, I think I'd take a vaccine for some of the more horrible ones, but the flu isn't on that list. For about ten years of the past twelve, I've had several bouts of the flu. Three years ago I think I had the bird flu or whatever it was that was the most feared thing ever at that time, and it was pretty awful. But I just haven't got anything since.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but comments like those I've seen here by the Silencer sorta put me on OB's team, somewhat. But I still think the government is incompetent in the whole medical field, and we need a complete wall of separation between the Government and Personal Health.

 

[LogGrad98]

I will say I cannot stand the kids that get the perfect attendance awards in school when I know for a fact they came to school 3 times sick as dogs and infected everyone else in their classes, which spread to the rest of my family, so my kids and I missed days of school and work. ******** is what that is. That should be called the "typhoid mary" award.

 

[babe]

Yah, well, in my world schools wouldn't keep track of attendance, would use computerized courses you have to access with some kind of PIN, and wouldn't give grades. A student would have to show up in person at a testing center and take whatever test is required for a certificate of completion. I wouldn't object to those scores being on a permanent record that could be shown to other schools, colleges, or employers. Well, they'd all be private schools needing to certify to competency/completion to get paid, and whoever is paying the tuition should have someone there to make sure they're not being cheated on the real education.

If I ran the Boy Scouts I'd separate the badge judges from the local leadership somehow to achieve the same level of separation of teaching and testing. No business worth its salt has the same people making the product and certifying it's acceptable quality.

When I'm sick I stay at home, and if I need to go anywhere I give advance notice of the contagion prospects. Well, I have a lot of nephews and neices, a really big tribe has adopted me. They get excited when a kid gets the measles, and all the moms with toddlers old enough to pick it up haul them right over. It's a lot better to get it when you're young. Adults can die from it, but kids don't. My kids do a good job of bringing whatever is going around home for me. I might not avoid some things, but I think others should have the choice about getting it from me.

When I was in required attendance sorts of jobs, where anybody calling in sick was considered a crybaby, it was because even at work it could be arranged pretty well to stay out of other peoples' ways.

Immune systems are sometimes incapacitated or in low functional states, and even the flu can be deadly. Old folks with compromised lung/heart conditions would do well to take the flu vaccine as doctors generally recommend. Dictating one size fits all medical protocols have some down side effects sometimes. The government is incompetent to make all these choices for individuals, and individuals deserve the right to choose. I'd be in favor of private well-care/family care providers who would contract with their clients to do the tests needed to make critical decisions about their care. As long as the client can walk out and go to a competitor, they have the most fundament power of choice, and a fair chance at getting good advice.

Obamacare is going to take away effective personal power in our most critical personal decisions. . . . those that directly impact our very lives. Nobody in their right mind, with any intelligence at all, should be wanting that. But of course few of us are in our right minds anymore, in direct result from our "educators".

 

[One Brow]

... and with a statistical certainty you will develop autoimmune disease of some kind. Mostly inconsequential perhaps in a normal life span, and those that become debilitating conditions occur at some rate in humans anyway, so we'll be slow to accept the vaccines as a proven cause, like in the case of autism.

So, you're posulating the existence of a slew of auto-immune-diseased people with no dicernible symptoms. Is that like the minature elepahts that make electricity work?

Also, people are not being slow to accept vaccines cause autism, because when you use the same diagnostic criteria for both the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, levels of vaccination show no correspondance to levels of autism.

 

[bordelais7]

while in the Navy I got a butt-ton of vaccines

Well done on your choice of wording.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

Is that your picture in your avatar? If so, you do kind of have that Madame Blavatsky/Theosophical society vibe going on.

Yeah that is me in the avatar.
Interesting call, because "The Secret Doctrine" is interesting.
The occult, not so much.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

So, you're posulating the existence of a slew of auto-immune-diseased people with no dicernible symptoms. Is that like the minature elepahts that make electricity work?

Also, people are not being slow to accept vaccines cause autism, because when you use the same diagnostic criteria for both the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, levels of vaccination show no correspondance to levels of autism.

I disagree.
Reason being is one of the major causes of Autism happens to be the heavy metal mercury.
Most vaccines contain a preservative called "Thimerosal", which contain this heavy metal.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

OB is apparently On Board for the duration.

Well, I worked for a few years in labs where immunology was the point of research. I was the pair of hands who made monoclonal antibodies, purified them, and tested their effectiveness.

Before that, I innoculated little animals with various proteins so they would develop useful antibodies which I could use later to identify or track those specific proteins in human blood circulation. Oh, ya, I had to collect the blood specimens from the people with the diseases too. And put it all through a lot of purification steps to isolate them, and then prepare them for the amino acid sequencer, and so forth. That was about the time DNA techniques were coming into use for the same studies.

Well, having some knowledge of how vaccines are made, including the media used in their production, and all that is not done to clean them up, the fact is for every vaccine you receive, you're being "vaccinated" for a lot of other proteins too. You will develop antibodies to these substances, mostly animal proteins with large homologies with human proteins that serve the same general functions in living systems, and with a statistical certainty you will develop autoimmune disease of some kind. Mostly inconsequential perhaps in a normal life span, and those that become debilitating conditions occur at some rate in humans anyway, so we'll be slow to accept the vaccines as a proven cause, like in the case of autism.

I still use vaccines in my work, and I understand the debates over pros and cons. I go out of my way to get communicable diseases from natural sources so I will develop natural immunity without exposing myself to those autoimmune diseases. Well, I think I'd take a vaccine for some of the more horrible ones, but the flu isn't on that list. For about ten years of the past twelve, I've had several bouts of the flu. Three years ago I think I had the bird flu or whatever it was that was the most feared thing ever at that time, and it was pretty awful. But I just haven't got anything since.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but comments like those I've seen here by the Silencer sorta put me on OB's team, somewhat. But I still think the government is incompetent in the whole medical field, and we need a complete wall of separation between the Government and Personal Health.

Correction: We need a complete seperation of government from everything but national defense and preserving sound money.

 

[One Brow]

I disagree.
Reason being is one of the major causes of Autism happens to be the heavy metal mercury.
Most vaccines contain a preservative called "Thimerosal", which contain this heavy metal.

I'm sure you do disagree. You're just wrong. it's not a matter of opinion, conjecture, or religious belief. It's a matter of evidence, chemistry, and biology.

1) Mercury poisoning does not cause autism.
2) Thimerosal is an organic compund that contains mercury, buts does not contribute to mercury poisoning.
3) Thimerosal was removed from vaccines years ago, in response to the outcry of people like you, even though there was no evidence to justify it. Predictably, the removal of thimerosal from vaccines has left the autism incidence rate unaffected ("predicatbly", because thimerosal was never a cause to begin with, and making public health decisions on bad evidence means making bad decisions).

 

[TheSilencer1313]

I'm sure you do disagree. You're just wrong. it's not a matter of opinion, conjecture, or religious belief. It's a matter of evidence, chemistry, and biology.

1) Mercury poisoning does not cause autism.
2) Thimerosal is an organic compund that contains mercury, buts does not contribute to mercury poisoning.
3) Thimerosal was removed from vaccines years ago, in response to the outcry of people like you, even though there was no evidence to justify it. Predictably, the removal of thimerosal from vaccines has left the autism incidence rate unaffected ("predicatbly", because thimerosal was never a cause to begin with, and making public health decisions on bad evidence means making bad decisions).

1) Mercury poisoning absolutely causes a whole host of problems as with most vaccines it builds up in the brain over time with additional vaccines.
2) The problem with cut and dry evidence, chemistry, and biology is the fact that it's always a theory of the time..... and evidence, chemistry, and biology all contradict themselves as the years pass, and doctors think they understand more about it. It's always theory.
3) This is also an incorrect statement.
The so-called H1N1 vaccine that we were all supposed to get, or everyone will die of the plague scenario had the ingredient thimerosal directly listed on the insert.
Autism as well as many many other diseases have continued to go up in number ever since vaccines have become widely administered.
Also, the mercury that is contained in these vaccines is not naturally occuring... it is mostly bi-product of most metal smelting processes just like the added flouride in our water and toothpaste is.

 

[One Brow]

1) Mercury poisoning absolutely causes a whole host of problems as with most vaccines it builds up in the brain over time with additional vaccines.
2) The problem with cut and dry evidence, chemistry, and biology is the fact that it's always a theory of the time..... and evidence, chemistry, and biology all contradict themselves as the years pass, and doctors think they understand more about it. It's always theory.
3) This is also an incorrect statement.
The so-called H1N1 vaccine that we were all supposed to get, or everyone will die of the plague scenario had the ingredient thimerosal directly listed on the insert.
Autism as well as many many other diseases have continued to go up in number ever since vaccines have become widely administered.
Also, the mercury that is contained in these vaccines is not naturally occuring... it is mostly bi-product of most metal smelting processes just like the added flouride in our water and toothpaste is.

1) Like any other element, mercury occurs in different compounds, and these compuonds interact with the body in different ways. In pure form, both iron and carbon are poisonous. In various organic compounds, they are essential to our health. Similarly, elemental mercury is toxic, but thimerasol is not.

2) The problem with abandoning theory is that you leave behind what you can be reasonably sure of for conjecture, whimsy, cognitive biases, and fantasy. It's like trading in you 12-year-old car for a unicorn, and having the dealer tell you it's been delayed at the breeding factory, but he'll let you when it's ready. It never seems to grow up.

3) With the exception of flu vaccines, thimerasol has been removed. It ws removed from MMR, Hib, etc. It's not made-up, it's fact. Autism incidence has not decreased. It's not made up, it's fact.

The most common explanation for the increase in autism diagnoses is diagnostic substitution. Forty years ago my eldest son would have been labeled "retarded", 15 years ago it was PDD-NOS (an autism-spectrum disorder).

You seem to be confusing "organic compound" with "natural".

 

[TheSilencer1313]

1) Like any other element, mercury occurs in different compounds, and these compuonds interact with the body in different ways. In pure form, both iron and carbon are poisonous. In various organic compounds, they are essential to our health. Similarly, elemental mercury is toxic, but thimerasol is not.

2) The problem with abandoning theory is that you leave behind what you can be reasonably sure of for conjecture, whimsy, cognitive biases, and fantasy. It's like trading in you 12-year-old car for a unicorn, and having the dealer tell you it's been delayed at the breeding factory, but he'll let you when it's ready. It never seems to grow up.

3) With the exception of flu vaccines, thimerasol has been removed. It ws removed from MMR, Hib, etc. It's not made-up, it's fact. Autism incidence has not decreased. It's not made up, it's fact.

The most common explanation for the increase in autism diagnoses is diagnostic substitution. Forty years ago my eldest son would have been labeled "retarded", 15 years ago it was PDD-NOS (an autism-spectrum disorder).

You seem to be confusing "organic compound" with "natural".

Ok, so I will agree with you in the fact that I wasn't referring to an "organic compound", as opposed to the word "natural".
Now at the same time.... I'm not saying that a mercury type preservative in vaccines completely cause all these things, but it definitely contributes.
The vaccine itself is cause for a whole host of auto-immune disorders, in some cases cells actually attacking each other.
To say that anyone knows what exactly causes autism, would be insanely ahead of themselves.
All I'm saying is there are plenty of studies out there linking mercury from vaccines to many many disorders.
I'm not going to explain how vaccines are made, because I'm sure you already know.
Seriously, do you really want this substance injected into your children's bodies?
https://www.naturalnews.com/026779_vaccine_flu_virus.html