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Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

DutchJazzer said:
nope.
there where less guns in the theater shooting then at a gun show.

you know what is readily available in mass shooting disarmed victims!!!


less victims less people shot
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Please explain to me how someone gets shot without a gun being involved.
 
DutchJazzer said:
ok give me an example name 1 that was in a "pwnzor zone" aka the guns allowed zone!
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Here's one just 3 weeks ago: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/children-adults-shot-dead-texas-home-report-article-1.2319619

And, starting on page 7 of this PDF, is a list of all the mass shootings that have occurred since January of 2009, including whether or not is was a gun free zone, and whether or not the shooter was legally prohibited from having firearms. https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/MassShooting-080715-9.pdf

EDIT: Note that a lot of them happened in private residences, and, as such, would not have been "Gun-free zones" by default.

EDIT #2: Oh, here's a big one:

Washington, DC, 9/16/13 The alleged shooter, who was a civilian contractor and former noncombat
military, killed twelve and wounded three more in an attack on Building 197 at the Navy
Yard.
• SHOOTER NAME: Aaron Alexis, 34
• GUN DETAILS: The shooter arrived with a shotgun and also obtained a handgun from one a security guard
that he killed.
• GUN ACQUIRED: Two days before the incident the shooter passed a National Instant Criminal Background
Check System (NICS) at the licensed gun dealer Sharpshooters in Lorton, VA, and purchased the shotgun.
• PROHIBITING CRITERIA: The shooter had been arrested at least three times including: in September 2010
in Fort Worth, Texas for shooting a firearm into a neighbor’s apartment; in August 2008 in Dekalb County,
Georgia for disorderly conduct; and in 2004 in Seattle, Washington for shooting out the tires of another
man’s vehicle. But court records do not indicate he was convicted in any of these cases, and this record did
not prohibit him from buying guns. He had also received treatment for mental health conditions at two VA
hospitals beginning in August, 2013 following an incident where he called Newport Rhode Island Police
to report hearing voices. But these incidents did not rise to the level of prohibiting from buying guns.
And during his military service he was reportedly cited on at least eight occasions for misconduct ranging
from traffic tickets and showing up late for work to insubordination, extended absences from work, and
disorderly conduct. On account of this the Navy sought to offer him a “general discharge” but he was
ultimately honorably discharged through the early-enlisted transition program in January 2011.
• NOT A GUN-FREE ZONE: There were armed guards at the Washington Navy Yard, and the shooter was
familiar with the premises, so he did not select it as a target on the presumption he would not faced armed
resistance. In fact, the shooter reportedly used a gun that he took from a guard after killing him.
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DutchJazzer said:
did no t say 0. i said less.


aka only the criminal had guns while the citizens where sitting ducks. or fish in a barrel
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Ah, so you DO need a gun to shoot someone. Interesting. So, if we could get rid of all guns, could we prevent all shootings? I'm not discussing the feasibility of getting rid of all guns, just the effect thereof.
 
call me crazy but i'm pretty happy that i live in a place where a zillion guns aren't easily available for those going through various kinds of mental illness and can't just easily get a gun at a whim.
 
gandalfe said:
Here's one just 3 weeks ago: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/children-adults-shot-dead-texas-home-report-article-1.2319619

And, starting on page 7 of this PDF, is a list of all the mass shootings that have occurred since January of 2009, including whether or not is was a gun free zone, and whether or not the shooter was legally prohibited from having firearms. https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/MassShooting-080715-9.pdf

EDIT: Note that a lot of them happened in private residences, and, as such, would not have been "Gun-free zones" by default.

EDIT #2: Oh, here's a big one:
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not gonna read too much liberal rantings as i believe it causes brain cancer if prolonged to long..


but if thats the criteria. are u allowed to enter the navy yard as a citizen with a gun?
NO

a navy yard is a gun free zone. the fact that law enforcement( including mp and special private armed security) are armed does not make it a non gun free zone.
a police officer can go to a gun free mall with his gun. does it mean the mall is gun free.


i see our definition of gun free zones differ.
you see it as a zone where even cops have to turn in their guns, there cannot be armed guards there. even military police and mp should turn in their gun!
i see a gun free zone as a zone where regular citizens are not allowed to carry a gun.
 
DutchJazzer said:
not gonna read too much liberal rantings as i believe it causes brain cancer if prolonged to long..


but if thats the criteria. are u allowed to enter the navy yard as a citizen with a gun?
NO

a navy yard is a gun free zone. the fact that law enforcement( including mp and special private armed security) are armed does not make it a non gun free zone.
a police officer can go to a gun free mall with his gun. does it mean the mall is gun free.


i see our definition of gun free zones differ.
you see it as a zone where even cops have to turn in their guns, there cannot be armed guards there. even military police and mp should turn in their gun!
i see a gun free zone as a zone where regular citizens are not allowed to carry a gun.
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WORDS HAVE MEANINGS! Again and again I have to teach you this, you moron. You DON'T get to change the definitions just because you want to.

I provide you with FACTS, and you decide you don't like them so you change your meaning. You're an idiot and a liar and not worth my time anymore.
 
gandalfe said:
WORDS HAVE MEANINGS! Again and again I have to teach you this, you moron. You DON'T get to change the definitions just because you want to.

I provide you with FACTS, and you decide you don't like them so you change your meaning. You're an idiot and a liar and not worth my time anymore.
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so whats a gun free zone in your world?

i know for most gun owners gun free zone is all about them a citizen to carry a gun or not into that zone.
they dont care about wether cops can carry a gun or not..


tried googling gun free zone.
first result i get is :gunfreezon.net
and second is :Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) - Wikipedia.


The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921

i know this aplies to gun free school zones. but cant find any other reputable source that defines a gun free zone.
 
gandalfe said:
WORDS HAVE MEANINGS! Again and again I have to teach you this, you moron. You DON'T get to change the definitions just because you want to.

I provide you with FACTS, and you decide you don't like them so you change your meaning. You're an idiot and a liar and not worth my time anymore.
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i am sorry if i dont know/have a different definition of gun free zone. so please can you give me your "correct" definition of gun free zone. so I can alter my statement about mass shooting in relation to gun free zones.

please
 
DutchJazzer said:
liberal rantings
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speaking of rants...

here is one of yours Dutch.

Donald-Trump.jpg
 

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Revolution 9 said:
I was wondering how you go about owning a weapon in Holland. Do you own one?
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yes i owe one but not in holland. it is at my parents house for safe keeping.
to own one u gotta do a lot.
first of join a shooting club. then start the process of acquiring a gun. this might take a few months and they will look into your past yada yada.
while that is going on you should get 2 safes for your home. 1 to store guns and 1 to store ammunition, if u cannot acquire one you can keep your gun in a safe at the shooting club.
you get the gun for the purpose of shooting at a shooting range.
when the gun is in your home it should always be stored separately from ammunition and should not be loaded in your home or on your way to the gun range. they should be in the trunk of your car unloaded.

basically you cannot use the gun for self defense. you have the duty to "retreat" meaning if an intruder is in "your home" as long as you can flee you should flee.
guess your home is not a safe place, not a place of refuge :P. cus retreat in my opinion is retreat to your home.
anywho that is basically the juist of it.

some guns are illegal. btw you cannot own guns that look "real" heck you cannot own this:


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.

cus it is a replica, even if the color is bue red or purple.

the gun laws here are very restrictive.
not only the gun laws but also the violence laws.
basically the government has a monopoly on violence, self defense is almost unlawfull.

so yes i do own a gun or 2. but no it is back in my home country. which i might be going back to for good in a year.


edit outside of the military NOBODY may shoot or own a fully automatic weapon!
 

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well found a English source that i think is fairly accurate.

Following a shooting spree on Saturday by a lone gunman which has so far cost the lives of seven people, questions are bound to be asked about how the killer, who reportedly used a fully automatic weapon, got his gun and ammo. Outside the military, nobody in the Netherlands is allowed to own or shoot an automatic weapon.

So what are the rules governing gun ownership in the Netherlands? Dutch gun laws are actually quite strict. Gun ownership is seen not as a right, but a privilege, with hunting and target shooting the only two legitimate reasons for owning a gun.

Self defence is not regarded as a valid argument for owning a gun, and only the police are allowed to carry a weapon. The main purpose of Dutch gun laws is to create a clear division between legal gun owners and people who use guns for criminal purposes. So far, the Dutch have been fairly successful in accomplishing this objective.

Gun owner
Aspiring sport shooters must join a gun club. Application for gun club membership involves a trial period, allowing the club to find out who they are dealing with, and a background check by the Justice ministry. A criminal record - particularly one involving violent incidents –would disqualify the applicant. Currently, there are about 42,000 gun owners registered with the Koninklijke Nederlandse Schutters Associatie (Royal Dutch Riflemen’s Association). All gun clubs are registered with the KNSA, which maintains close contact with the Justice ministry.

After one year of membership – during which period the new member can practice with guns owned by the club – members can apply for a gun permit and, if granted, purchase their first gun. After the second year of membership, gun owners can buy more guns, to a maximum of five. Guns and ammunition kept at home must be stored in separate strongboxes. The police regularly make house-calls to check whether the guns registered in a person’s name are actually in his possession and whether they are properly stored.

Permit revoked
Members of shooting clubs are only allowed to own guns which are suitable for use in KNSA-approved shooting matches which, for instance, rules out short-barreled revolvers and all automatic weapons which are unsuited to competitive shooting. Also, gun owners can only legally transport their guns and/or ammunition either from their home to their gun club, to a licensed gunsmith, to the police station (for inspection) or to a shooting match they hold an invitation to. All of the above via the shortest possible route.

As gun ownership is regarded as a privilege, almost any violation of the gun laws will automatically lead to the shooter’s gun permit being revoked. Involvement in a violent incident, or even driving a car under the influence of alcohol, will also result in the permit being revoked.

Unnecessary suffering
Another category of gun ownership involves guns used for hunting. There are about 28,000 hunters in the Netherlands, who must take an extensive and quite expensive one-year training course to obtain their hunter’s diploma before they can apply for a hunting licence. This will only be granted if they can prove they actually have access to hunting grounds, which in the densely-populated Netherlands can prove quite difficult to find. Hunters are allowed to take their rifles out into the fields, but the rules regarding safe storage apply to all legal gun owners, and must regularly practice their shooting skills at a rifle range to avoid unnecessary suffering of their prey.

Of course, just like its neighbours, the Netherlands has a serious problem with illegal weapons, most of which are owned and used by criminals. Many of these illegal arms are alarm guns illegally converted to firearms. Reliable information on the number of illegal firearms in the Netherlands is – for obvious reasons – difficult to come by, but recent research suggests that each year thousands of illegal weapons are smuggled into the Netherlands.
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so yeah even with these restriceve gun laws. we had to rely on 3 American marines to save the day.
the gunman form Paris boarded in amsterdam
 
dutch thank you for the info.

I like the rules of most European countries, and how hard they make it to get a weapon. I am ok with people owning a gun, but I think they should have to
go through a strict process to own and keep it. Its not something to be taken lightly.

and the 3 brave soldiers (they were not all marines) took him down with NO weapon.
 
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