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Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

I think it bears repeating again here that very few, if any, 'Liberals' are advocating for banning or outlawing guns (at least handguns, types of assault rifles, or other high powered weapons are a different story), but more advocating for reasonable precautions, such as background checks, waiting periods, etc., none of which interfered with the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns, but which only impose a minor inconvenience when purchasing them. By the way, a majority of NRA members also support such reasonable laws--the NRA itself is badly out of touch with its rank and file members in its policy advocacy, which drives home the point that the NRA doesn't care all that much about its members, it cares about the gun manufacturers that it represents. Their interests, and their interests alone, drive the NRA's extreme positions--extreme by its own members standards.
So, unless you want to call rank and file NRA members all "liberals', this is not a liberal conservative issue, but, in my view, more of a reasonable person vs. fanatic issue, and the fanatics are winning.
 
Gameface said:
I read the chart originally as deaths by firearms. Which is how I've seen the numbers presented the majority of the time.

Does the chart compare the U.S. to other countries with the highest gun homicide rates? I don't know if it does or not, but I'm leaning towards no.
Click to expand...

Name all the countries in the developed world with homicide rates over 7.7. I'll wait.


The best thing is that those numbers were taken in 2012. Imagine if it was done now, in 2015. Look at the numbers over the last three years. Lmfao.


CNWa1HiUYAA-mgo.png


https://www.economist.com/blogs/gra...ericas-guns?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/AmericasGuns
 
More guns, more deaths by guns ... very simplistic, but oh so true. Blame the bleepin' NRA and their irrational justification by use of the second amendment.
 
dalamon said:
Name all the countries in the developed world with homicide rates over 7.7. I'll wait.


The best thing is that those numbers were taken in 2012. Imagine if it was done now, in 2015. Look at the numbers over the last three years. Lmfao.


CNWa1HiUYAA-mgo.png
Click to expand...

This graph seems to please you...
 
Allot of people say that the reason that gun deaths are so high in America compared to other countries is due to the fact that we have so many guns (I agree) and that if we didn't have so many guns then the amount of deaths wouldn't change, (I disagree) just the way the deaths occurred would.

If that is true then I find it weird that other countries are shocked by the amount of gun deaths in the usa and other countries seem to know that there are tons of shootings in our country..... Almost like we are known for our shootings.

Why are aren't there other countries (with low gun related deaths) that are famous/known for tons of stabbings, baseball bat related deaths, suffocation related murders etc?
 
Gameface said:
I read the chart originally as deaths by firearms. Which is how I've seen the numbers presented the majority of the time.

Does the chart compare the U.S. to other countries with the highest gun homicide rates? I don't know if it does or not, but I'm leaning towards no.
Click to expand...

Look at the World Bank link I gave on the first page. The problem is not that the US has no one to compare to, it is WHO they compare to. Nobody in the developed world has a comparable rate of homicide. Countries that compare to the US rate of homicides are Afghanistan, Ghana, and India. Not exactly the most flattering comparisons. Some Latin American and African countries have a much higher homicide rate.

Keep in mind that the US has a violence problem across the board- not just a gun problem. Although guns are readily available, the US proudly leads the developed world in knife murders (with over 2000 a year)!
 
I have been completely turned off by gun rights advocates. They've essentially won but instead of taking the win and making sure guns are used responsibly or that irresponsible use is punished they instead seem to advocate for more and more cavalier attitudes about guns.
 
Gameface said:
This graph seems to please you...
Click to expand...
But do we have a higher total homicide rate? (Not gun related homicide, but just homicide over all)

I'm curious to know the answer
 
fishonjazz said:
Allot of people say that the reason that gun deaths are so high in America compared to other countries is due to the fact that we have so many guns (I agree) and that if we didn't have so many guns then the amount of deaths wouldn't change, (I disagree) just the way the deaths occurred would.

If that is true then I find it weird that other countries are shocked by the amount of gun deaths in the usa and other countries seem to know that there are tons of shootings in our country..... Almost like we are known for our shootings.

Why are aren't there other countries (with low gun related deaths) that are famous/known for tons of stabbings, baseball bat related deaths, suffocation related murders etc?
Click to expand...

good luck man. I thank my stars that Canadians don't have 1/10th of the gun-boner that Americans have.
 
fishonjazz said:
But do we have a higher total homicide rate? (Not gun related homicide, but just homicide over all)

I'm curious to know the answer
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely.

Do we really need shock and awe graphs to prove that point?

Does Dala think that's how this debate will change minds?
 
Gameface said:
Yeah, absolutely.

Do we really need shock and awe graphs to prove that point?

Does Dala think that's how this debate will change minds?
Click to expand...
I think dala was just trying to show that we have a problem with guns in this country.
I think you, me, and most people understand that and know that to be true, whether for guns or against..... But some people don't believe we have a problem
 
Gameface said:
Look at what you wrote above that graph. It was pretty offensive in my opinion.
Click to expand...

it's hard not to laugh when looking at the rebuttals in this thread tbh. Pretty offensive to see such a strong case of overconfidence.
 
Gameface said:
Yeah, absolutely.

Do we really need shock and awe graphs to prove that point?

Does Dala think that's how this debate will change minds?
Click to expand...

You should contact Stanford and tell them that their publications and data analysis are "shock and awe".
 
You should also tell Stanford that their data and research has never changed minds, or -- god forbid-- steered decision-making in congress, the supreme court, or the senate.

They'll gladly prove you wrong.
 
dalamon said:
You should contact Stanford and tell them that their publications and data analysis are "shock and awe".
Click to expand...

And you are proving his point that your snide attitude and condescending tone do nothing to further your argument.

You're better than that Dala.

On a side note lol at HH being worried about hate speech or posters being inflammatory.
 
BTW, while I'm providing statistics that show the problem with violence (and gun violence) in the US, I'm skeptical that gun control will make a fundamental difference. Like I, and others, pointed out, the US leads the worlds in most kinds of murders, not just gun violence. Since guns are the easiest way to kill someone, banning guns might reduce the rate a bit, but it won't solve any underlying problem. Also, the evidence that liberals tend to cite in support of gun control is sketch. For example, Australia banned guns in the mid 90s (often cited example), and experienced a drop in gun violence. But they had MINUSCULE rate of gun violence even when guns were readily available!

I don't know, man. The US has a deeper problem, and gun control is a bandaid solution.
 
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