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Stockpiling 2nds and time to spend

stitches

stitches

Well-Known Member
2023 Prediction Contest Winner
After the trade today we have gotten yet another 2nd round pick. We are stock piling those second rounders and I don't really know what we can do with them. Also, the more of them we have the less of a value each of them have. Right now we have the following future picks:

2015: Jazz' 1st and 2nd
2016: Jazz' 1st, Jazz' 2nd, Warriors' 2nd, Boston or Toronto's 2nd
2017: Jazz' 1st, Warriors' 1st, Jazz' 2nd, Warriors' 2nd, Knicks' 2nd
2018: Jazz' 1st, Jazz 2nd, Knicks' 2nd

+ the one acquired in this current trade (I still don't know for what year it is. Possibly 2015).

So in the next 4 years we have possibly 5 first round selections and 10 second round picks. I don't know if teams would be willing to give up much if they knew that those picks are not of much value to us as picks. I think the time for spending is coming. Maybe this coming year, maybe the year after, but I think we definitely need to start cashing in for all those assets, before they start losing their value.
 
Some Jazz 2nd round picks:
1993 Bryon Russell
1996 Shandon Anderson
2001 Jarron Collins
2003 Mo Williams
2005 C.J. Miles
2006 Paul Millsap
2008 Ante Tomic
2010 Jeremy Evans
 
Ellipse said:
Some Jazz 2nd round picks:
1993 Bryon Russell
1996 Shandon Anderson
2001 Jarron Collins
2003 Mo Williams
2005 C.J. Miles
2006 Paul Millsap
2008 Ante Tomic
2010 Jeremy Evans
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A couple starters in 20 years time, a bunch of fringe rotation players and one stash that we haven't yet seen in a Jazz jersey 6 years after he's been drafted. That's all good, I know we can stumble on a gem in the second round, but we have 10 in the next 4 years with 5 first round picks for a really young team. We can't use them all on the roster. Simply can't! That's why I am saying the time is probably coming when we need to cash in on some of those.
 
stitches said:
A couple starters in 20 years time, a bunch of fringe rotation players and one stash that we haven't yet seen in a Jazz jersey 6 years after he's been drafted. That's all good, I know we can stumble on a gem in the second round, but we have 10 in the next 4 years with 5 first round picks for a really young team. We can't use them all on the roster. Simply can't! That's why I am saying the time is probably coming when we need to cash in on some of those.
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I still think we will turn Kanter and some 2nd rounders into a more affordable player and a first.
 
Disagree that the more picks we acquire means they become less valuable to opposing teams. If a team came at DL and lowballed him because we have so many, he would probably kindly tell them to **** off and come back when they've tucked their bush in.
 
Avery said:
Disagree that the more picks we acquire means they become less valuable to opposing teams. If a team came at DL and lowballed him because we have so many, he would probably kindly tell them to **** off and come back when they've tucked their bush in.
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You mean like he did in this year's draft? That second round pick in such a stacked draft had the value of at least an average draft's late first round pick and we gave it up for what would probably be mid second round pick in a much more shallow draft.
 
stitches said:
You mean like he did in this year's draft? That second round pick in such a stacked draft had the value of at least an average draft's late first round pick and we gave it up for what would probably be mid second round pick in a much more shallow draft.
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I actually have total faith in the Jazz with second round picks. I don't for a second believe that they saw value in using a pick on any of the Euros, so they traded out for another chance next year. I suspect the Jazz Euro scouts, who actually have their jobs on the line, know a little more than draft express who pull stuff out of their behind all of the time. Remember when the Jazz drafted Podzelzoine (sp) that 7'6" guy and promptly traded him to Dallas? People whined, and yet it was the right decision. Just because you have a second rounder doesn't mean you have to throw it away on some guy DX is hyping to make people interested in the second round of the draft. If the Jazz like and want a guy, they will go and get him. They didn't want any of those guys. Probably liked some of these underutilized guys, like the guy they picked up today, better.
 
Ellipse said:
Some Jazz 2nd round picks:
1993 Bryon Russell
1996 Shandon Anderson
2001 Jarron Collins
2003 Mo Williams
2005 C.J. Miles
2006 Paul Millsap
2008 Ante Tomic
2010 Jeremy Evans
Click to expand...

You should add Wes Matthews to that list, since he was available throughout the entire second round.
 
stitches said:
A couple starters in 20 years time, a bunch of fringe rotation players and one stash that we haven't yet seen in a Jazz jersey 6 years after he's been drafted. That's all good, I know we can stumble on a gem in the second round, but we have 10 in the next 4 years with 5 first round picks for a really young team. We can't use them all on the roster. Simply can't! That's why I am saying the time is probably coming when we need to cash in on some of those.
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Well, we had three quality picks and three decent picks in 21 years, so the odds are that those 10 picks should net us one quality pick and two decent picks.
 
stitches said:
After the trade today we have gotten yet another 2nd round pick. We are stock piling those second rounders and I don't really know what we can do with them. Also, the more of them we have the less of a value each of them have. Right now we have the following future picks:

2015: Jazz' 1st and 2nd
2016: Jazz' 1st, Jazz' 2nd, Warriors' 2nd, Boston or Toronto's 2nd
2017: Jazz' 1st, Warriors' 1st, Jazz' 2nd, Warriors' 2nd, Knicks' 2nd
2018: Jazz' 1st, Jazz 2nd, Knicks' 2nd

+ the one acquired in this current trade (I still don't know for what year it is. Possibly 2015).

So in the next 4 years we have possibly 5 first round selections and 10 second round picks. I don't know if teams would be willing to give up much if they knew that those picks are not of much value to us as picks. I think the time for spending is coming. Maybe this coming year, maybe the year after, but I think we definitely need to start cashing in for all those assets, before they start losing their value.
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Each draft has exactly 30 2nd round picks. It doesn't matter how many 2nd round picks the Jazz own, there are still only 30 2nd round picks in any given year. If anything, the more 2nd round picks the Jazz own, the more leverage (read: value) each pick has in trade because fewer teams have them as assets.
 
Ellipse said:
Well, we had three quality picks and three decent picks in 21 years, so the odds are that those 10 picks should net us one quality pick and two decent picks.
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You need to have available roster spots to make that calculus. Those 20 or so picks are spread through 20 years, not 4...
 
stitches said:
You need to have available roster spots to make that calculus. Those 20 or so picks are spread through 20 years, not 4...
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In 2 years, there is a good chance either Kanter or Burks will be gone. In 4 years, there is a very good chance Hayward will be gone and maybe even Favors. It doesn't matter what we as fans want, players follow the money and the Jazz can't max everybody. There will always be at least three roster spots open every year and a second rounder can fill one of them if he shows promise.
 
Ellipse said:
Each draft has exactly 30 2nd round picks. It doesn't matter how many 2nd round picks the Jazz own, there are still only 30 2nd round picks in any given year. If anything, the more 2nd round picks the Jazz own, the more leverage (read: value) each pick has in trade because fewer teams have them as assets.
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If we could use them and get their value, that would be true, but we can't - we have limited roster space. Also, it is not by accident that the second round picks are not guaranteed a contract. A lot of teams do NOT put any value on them and don't even sign the players they've drafted in the second round, there definitely isn't lack of supply for second round picks so the jazz having 3 picks would make any difference.

Ellipse said:
In 2 years, there is a good chance either Kanter or Burks will be gone. In 4 years, there is a very good chance Hayward will be gone and maybe even Favors. It doesn't matter what we as fans want, players follow the money and the Jazz can't max everybody. There will always be at least three roster spots open every year and a second rounder can fill one of them if he shows promise.
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You just listed 3 players that would be gone in the next 4 years. For the same 4 years we have 15 draft picks(10 of them in the second round)! I know what you mean - usually you'd need to fill up your roster with a couple of rookies. The problem is when you have an abundance of them(like in 2017 we have 5). At some point we need to stop acquiring rookies and need to start spending so we'd turn into a contender. You can't rely only on bunches of second round rookies to push you toward being a contender.
 
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Ellipse said:
In 2 years, there is a good chance either Kanter or Burks will be gone. In 4 years, there is a very good chance Hayward will be gone and maybe even Favors. It doesn't matter what we as fans want, players follow the money and the Jazz can't max everybody. There will always be at least three roster spots open every year and a second rounder can fill one of them if he shows promise.
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Jazz can max all their FAs. With these picks, it just gives us more opportunity to assemble the largest collection of Mac contracts in the league.
 
stitches said:
If we could use them and get their value, that would be true, but we can't - we have limited roster space. Also, it is not by accident that the second round picks are not guaranteed a contract. A lot of teams do NOT put any value on them and don't even sign the players they've drafted in the second round, there definitely isn't lack of supply for second round picks so the jazz having 3 picks would make any difference.



You just listed 3 players that would be gone in the next 4 years. For the same 4 years we have 15 draft picks(10 of them in the second round)! I know what you mean - usually you'd need to fill up your roster with a couple of rookies. The problem is when you have an abundance of them(like in 2017 we have 5). At some point we need to stop acquiring rookies and need to start spending so we'd turn into a contender. You can't rely only on bunches of second round rookies to push you toward being a contender.
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Ever heard of trading up?
Jazz won't use all those picks; they're assets. To some teams, an early 2nd round pick is better than a late first due to the non-guaranteed contract. Some picks will be trading chips, some will be used on players, some may get pushed back to later years. Will some be wasted? Yes, just like most 2nd-rounders, finding a gem is rare. NO team hits on every pick. But the more darts you have, the better chance to hit a bulls-eye.

Point is, the Jazz were going to have LucasIII languish on the bench. Murphy wasn't very likely to make the team, and Thomas was going to be used sparingly.

Thomas: 8 games/8 minutes per. Is Booker better? Yes, considerably.
Murphy: 24 games/3 minutes per. Is Novak better? Yes. Murphy was absolutely horrible in SL.
JLIII: just about any player in the league is better as a 3rd PG.

IINM, Thomas and Murphy were waiver pickups - they cost the Jazz nothing. Utah brought them in for a test drive, but have now flipped them for the 33rd pick last season PLUS another pick PLUS cash.
 
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