Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

[jom2003]

#restricted

Why would Phoenix and Washington trade for these guys knowing they have their rights just to let them go? Maybe they do if we overpay, but are these guys worth an overpay?

1, so were Boozer and Okur when we signed them, and we all know how that turned out.

2, define "overpay". for guys like Oubre, Portis, or Booz and Memo when we signed them, who are very much in the early stage of their career, could very well end up developing into Tobias/Middleton caliber of high quality starters/borderline allstars in the future. and once they do, we all know how hard it is for us to get them either from an open market or trade. For that reason, we should pay them at an amount that's above their playing level at the moment, but hopefully in a couple of years, they'll grow into the players that are well worth the money. it's always gonna be a hit or miss, sure, but it's a chance that a small market team like us should be willing to take.

 

[LoPo]

1, so were Boozer and Okur when we signed them, and we all know how that turned out.

2, define "overpay". for guys like Oubre, Portis, or Booz and Memo when we signed them, who are very much in the early stage of their career, could very well end up developing into Tobias/Middleton caliber of high quality starters/borderline allstars in the future. and once they do, we all know how hard it is for us to get them. For that reason, we should pay them at an amount that's above their playing level at the moment, but hopefully in a couple of years, they'll grow into the players that are well worth the money. it's always gonna be a hit or miss, sure, but it's a chance that a small market team like us should be willing to take.

We paid a huge amount of money at that time for both Okur and Boozer. Their contracts in today's market would be $20+. Both panned out, but that also is the best free agent summer in the history of our franchise. Perfect storm of money, playing time, player preferences, etc.

As for how much for Oubre, I wouldn't do it. I would rather groom O'Neale than give his minutes to Oubre. I wouldn't pay over MLE for Oubre.

I like Portis, but I don't think he upgrades Favors all that much. I think they are similar and we need a different type of big if we go from Favors.



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[Jazz]

I'm an oubre guy

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Oubre is good. Great size. He's an athlete. Great athletes with size is what teams want in NBA these days

 

[jom2003]

We are undefeated with Mitchell and Ingles running the offense.
- How well would a starting unit of Mitchell, Redick, Ingles, Favors and Gobert do?
- If we are trying to put Mitchell in more positions to attack the defense, wouldn't Redick spread the floor that much more? - Doesn't Gobert lead the league in screen assists and isn't Redick one of the best players in the entire league coming off screens?

we were undefeated with Mitchell and Ingles running the offense+ Royce/Thabo providing quality perimeter defense. Redick won't be anything more than a sixth man on this team due to his mediocre size and defense. Redick's shooting would've being great addition to the Jazz offense, yes. But it's not worth the cost we have to pay to get him cuz he really doesn't provide us with anything outside of that. Unlike Sato, who has a higher floor in the Jazz system just for his size and athleticism alone even if his doesn't sustain his 50/40 shooting.

for that reason, i'd rather see DL looking into the draft/G league for shooters instead.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Man we are at the Sato/reddick/Oubre portion of the thread huh? Maybe I don’t hate the idea of trading for Kevin Love.

I like sato but just such a downgrade from our high hopes.

 

[jom2003]

We paid a huge amount of money at that time for both Okur and Boozer. Their contracts in today's market would be $20+. Both panned out, but that also is the best free agent summer in the history of our franchise. Perfect storm of money, playing time, player preferences, etc.

As for how much for Oubre, I wouldn't do it. I would rather groom O'Neale than give his minutes to Oubre. I wouldn't pay over MLE for Oubre.

I like Portis, but I don't think he upgrades Favors all that much. I think they are similar and we need a different type of big if we go from Favors.



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there's no conflict between playing Royce and Oubre. Royce will get lots of quality minutes at the 2 since Dante is almost guaranteed to be out at least 10-20 games a year anyways. Oubre brings much needed size and athleticism to the small forward spot since we all know what a bad idea it is to have Ingles guarding players like Kawhi, George, Giannis or any forwards that are simply bigger and quicker. it really has been one of the glaring weaknesses of this team since Gordon left and should have been corrected one or two summers ago.

Portis is very much like Tobias. I really wish we could bring one of them in without giving up Favs, but since one of DL's many disastrous decisions last summer is to lock Dante in for 9mil a year, cap-space wise we don't really have a choice in this case, do we?

 

[infection]

Man we are at the Sato/reddick/Oubre portion of the thread huh? Maybe I don’t hate the idea of trading for Kevin Love.

I like sato but just such a downgrade from our high hopes.

It’s getting pretty comfy in here. Jump in.

All according to plan. This is why the board will be elated with Love.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I just keep thinking... what we really need is another Joe Ingles... OP jr. could have been the guy we missed out on. They aren't the same, but there are some similarities on how the effect they produce. Looked at his numbers since he went to Chicago... dude was clearly checked out and just ready to be done with Washington.

Stupid Wizards... I hope they exercise Jabari's option and give Portis 4/100M and pay a billion in luxury tax for a team that can't make the playoffs.

 

[jom2003]

I just keep thinking... what we really need is another Joe Ingles... OP jr. could have been the guy we missed out on. They aren't the same, but there are some similarities on how the effect they produce. Looked at his numbers since he went to Chicago... dude was clearly checked out and just ready to be done with Washington.

Stupid Wizards... I hope they exercise Jabari's option and give Portis 4/100M and pay a billion in luxury tax for a team that can't make the playoffs.

i think we can utilize Wizards' stupidity to our full advantage here in the summer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It’s getting pretty comfy in here. Jump in.

All according to plan. This is why the board will be elated with Love.

Ya boy Niko should be available. Read somewhere about Bledsoe extension could allow Milwaukee to drop below the cap to re-sign Lopez while maintaining Brogdon and Middleton cap holds. He is a most cost effective piece for them... I assume they would have to waive Niko's cap hold. I think he is the odd man out. Getting him at 15-20M is better than Love with his deal... I think we have a solid plan b now. If Malcolm signs a big offer sheet before they do their other business it could through the timing off to keep Lopez, but with restricted offers coming after moratorium they should be fine.

If we are willing to pay market rate I think we are the leader in the clubhouse for Niko... I don't see a ton of suitors in his price range. I know you are dubious, but that is how I see it playing out absent any big injuries or changes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

i think we can utilize Wizards' stupidity to our full advantage here in the summer.

I wonder if they extend ya boy before season's end. He's eligible for like a 4/40... they'd be wise to offer it. They have a lot of uncertainty this offseason and will almost certainly eff things up.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

but at least he won't be worse than Rubio. especially now that the realization of "Ricky ain't comin back" has been reached.

I think he could be worse

 

[jom2003]

I wonder if they extend ya boy before season's end. He's eligible for like a 4/40... they'd be wise to offer it. They have a lot of uncertainty this offseason and will almost certainly eff things up.

I doubt he's gonna take that money to stay as their backup guard. tough to find steady minutes behind Wall/Beal

 

[jom2003]

I think he could be worse

on a team that values more ball-handling/floor generalness, he could be and probably will be. but what we need more is spot-up shooting/size/athleticism, it'd be tough to be worse than Ricky in those categories.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I doubt he's gonna take that money to stay as their backup guard. tough to find steady minutes behind Wall/Beal

40M is 40M doe... he will be their starter for at least next season... who knows how long it will take Wall to get back.

 

[LoPo]

Ya boy Niko should be available. Read somewhere about Bledsoe extension could allow Milwaukee to drop below the cap to re-sign Lopez while maintaining Brogdon and Middleton cap holds. He is a most cost effective piece for them... I assume they would have to waive Niko's cap hold. I think he is the odd man out. Getting him at 15-20M is better than Love with his deal... I think we have a solid plan b now. If Malcolm signs a big offer sheet before they do their other business it could through the timing off to keep Lopez, but with restricted offers coming after moratorium they should be fine.

If we are willing to pay market rate I think we are the leader in the clubhouse for Niko... I don't see a ton of suitors in his price range. I know you are dubious, but that is how I see it playing out absent any big injuries or changes.

Love at $30 is much better than Mirotic at $20. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Mirotic.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Oubre is one of the guys I just wouldn’t touch. His game is meh... he just seems like a guy who is so impressed with himself... I don’t think it’s a great fit for us.

 

[LoPo]

Oubre is one of the guys I just wouldn’t touch. His game is meh... he just seems like a guy who is so impressed with himself... I don’t think it’s a great fit for us.

I agree. I don't think he plays over Ingles, Crowder, Korver or O'Neale

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Love at $30 is much better than Mirotic at $20. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Mirotic.

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Niko is 2+ years younger, and has a lot less miles on the odometer. Love is less durable. Love is better than Niko... when he can play, but the primary function for both guys is stretching the floor. Paying 30 for Love next year might be worth it and might be better than Niko at 20 (I'm not sure Niko gets quite that much)... but Love will have to age quite well or I'm not sure his on court value will be what Niko's is... and he makes 50% more (theoretically).

To each their own, but I disagree.

 

[infection]

Ya boy Niko should be available. Read somewhere about Bledsoe extension could allow Milwaukee to drop below the cap to re-sign Lopez while maintaining Brogdon and Middleton cap holds. He is a most cost effective piece for them... I assume they would have to waive Niko's cap hold. I think he is the odd man out. Getting him at 15-20M is better than Love with his deal... I think we have a solid plan b now. If Malcolm signs a big offer sheet before they do their other business it could through the timing off to keep Lopez, but with restricted offers coming after moratorium they should be fine.

If we are willing to pay market rate I think we are the leader in the clubhouse for Niko... I don't see a ton of suitors in his price range. I know you are dubious, but that is how I see it playing out absent any big injuries or changes.

Love at $30 is much better than Mirotic at $20. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Mirotic.

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Niko has never been in a situation where he’s actually relied on for his offense, which would be the one exception that we can provide that a lot of other people wouldn’t. I mean, Rodney Hood was relied on for his offense with us and averaged 16.8 PPG. He then averaged 10.8 ppg for Cleveland last year, 12.2 ppg for Cleveland this year, and 8.2 ppg with Portland. Niko has been averaging the same amount of points Hood did as one of our primary guys but in very secondary roles. He’s easily an 18 ppg guy for us As a pretty conservative estimate, and his volume three point shooting at the 4 would have a lot more value than Rodney’s volume three point shooting from the wing.