Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Middleton/Harris/almost all of the guys we mention are not qualified to be #2

None of those guys would be second or third options. 1,2,3rd options belong to Mitchell Gobert and Ingles. That is the basis to how this offense is run. Guys like Harris Middleton and Niko would be cogs, pieces that fit a puzzle and complete the offense enhancing and elevate the effectiveness of what makes up the jazz offense. DM, Gobert, and Ingles.

Randle is the exact opposite, he is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. He would actually force his way into the role of second option, interrupting what the core of this offense has. Randle takes the ball out of both Ingles and Mitchell’s hands and still tries to occupy the same space Gobert needs while one of Harris Niko or Middleton allow Mitchell and Ingles to run the offense and give Gobert space to operate seamlessly in the pick’n roll. These are guys that don’t hold the ball too long or need the ball all that much, so while that is the case, they are efficient, and effective scorers that don’t get in the way, but are pieces that help unlock the secrets of this offense and propel the jazz to contention. You don’t just sign a guy like Randle to globs of money because he can score 20 points a game and shot over 30% for the first time in his career. That’s why they call it jazz dna. Harris , Middleton and Niko have it because each would fit what the jazz want to do.

Case and point is how the jazz finally broke through in the Stockton and Malone days. They had a big three of Stockton, K Malone and J Malone. Jeff was a 20 point scorer, and talented offensive player, but had his flaws because he could only space the floor to a certain point and was limited within the offense because he occupied the same space as Karl, but then traded him for Horny who was that missing piece. He was the missing piece because he complimented the offense instead of hindering it. One of Niko, Harris, or Middleton are our Horny in a matter of speaking. Yes, Randle is talented and can score, but he doesn’t fit, likewise Those other players are talented and enhance the offense because they aren’t getting in the way and give the type of offense we are lacking. They can act as a second option to take pressure off Mitchell without actually being the actual second option.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

You mean the fact that the jazz

You are just saying stuff... with no facts or anything to back it. You could say Middleton/Harris/almost all of the guys we mention are not qualified to be #2 options on a conference finals team.

I gave plenty of facts while also saying stuff

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean unless it is prime Shaq out there I'm not sure any center is carrying a lineup of pelican's bench guys to success.

IDK... Randle is not an ideal fit. I just think he's a better fit. Guys calling him a black hole... need to slow down. He gets a decent amount of assists for a big. He probably holds the ball a little too long though... so I get the bad fit issue.

All FAs get overpaid... a 4 year max for Middleton is overpaying... but he will get it. Randle may be the rare undervalued guy if the shooting continues to improve. I don't think Randle gets the max... think he gets between 18-25M per year... get him at the lower number and there could be some serious value there.

Everyone goes bonkers for Aaron Gordon, who is just a year younger, and Gordon is a better passer (maybe) less turnover prone, but a way less efficient scorer on a lot less volume. Gordon is a better outside shooter I guess... better defender, but I'm not sure he's elite on that side of the ball. I get that he is playing out of position and there is some mystery there.

I think Randle is an interesting plan D or E... I'm not completely sold, but some are acting like he's trash. It isn't his fault he was on some awful LA teams and has been involved in this NOLA season... I'm not ready to call him a "good stats bad team" guy yet.

But every team he's been on has been wildly worse on defense when he plays center. Like incredibly bad.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Randle's cool if you have a floor spacing center who's also great on defense.

Oh wait, he had that this year with Anthony Davis, the guy who is the best player in the world at that role and they still sucked.

He's just not a fit with Gobert at all and if you plan to play him at the backup 5 your defense is going to be horrendous for those minutes.

He isnt a plan E or F because you dont overpay a guy who is that low on your priority list.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And the Lakers were 13th in defensive rating last year but would have the worst rating in the league when Randle played center, so I dont know how much you can blame on "his team sucked".

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And the Lakers were 13th in defensive rating last year but would have the worst rating in the league when Randle played center, so I dont know how much you can blame on "his team sucked".

That was more in reference to him being a good stats bad team guy. He sucks on defense as a center... but maybe you just don’t play him there if you can’t outscore the opposing bench unit that way... just not sure the NO bench unit is the one to use as the comparison.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That was more in reference to him being a good stats bad team guy. He sucks on defense as a center... but maybe you just don’t play him there if you can’t outscore the opposing bench unit that way... just not sure the NO bench unit is the one to use as the comparison.

Maybe you know, it's his fault.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe you know, it's his fault.

Yup... it’s AD’s fault his team is mediocre every year even though he puts up numbers. Basketball is an individual sport and who a person plays with should be ignored when considering their individual contributions.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yup... it’s AD’s fault his team is mediocre every year even though he puts up numbers. Basketball is an individual sport and who a person plays with should be ignored when considering their individual contributions.

We're talking about Julius Randle...

And yes, I think Randle's last two teams have suffererd greatly from playing him at center. The stats back that up that he is the common factor in why his team's defense suffers when he plays the 5.

Sorry, I just think signing Randle with the idea of him being your backup 5 is a moronic concept.

 

[infection]

I wish I had a time machine and could go back to last summer and tell everyone high on our flexibility that after the deadline HH and Cy would be arguing the merits of Julius Randle as our 2019 FA acquisition.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Randle would be an improvement over Favors for a number of reasons. And yes, he can play C too.

And yes, I'm serious.

Favors is putting up 121 off rating and 103 defensive rating
Randle is putting up 116 off rating and 111 defensive rating

Favors also has better WS, VORP, BPM, TRB%, and BLK%. Pretty much every advanced stat points to Favors. Randle is a better passer, he is also a better 3 point shooter but not a good 3 point shooter. Favors is a better mid range shooter, better around the rim, better rebounder and a much much better defender. At the Center position its not really close, its arguable at the PF spot. Randle is playing well but he doesnt change our team in a W/L way if he replaced Favors and there is a decent argument we are worse.

 

[LoPo]

People are arguing against Randle because 12 minutes a game he isn't as good as Gobert or Favors at center. So we are okay keeping the inferior PF because we are worried about his ability to play a completely different position which we could easily cover with a plethora of cheap backup C options.

Newsflash people - we desperately need to find more offense especially in our starting unit. Well, most times guys who are great offensive players are also average defenders and vice versa. The guys who do both well are called stars and hard to come by.

So when fan favorite Favors gets played off the court this playoffs because he isn't a PF, I will remind you once again that we need a better PF option who can actually threaten the other team with his offense.

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