Terrorism in Charleston, SC

[Deleted member 848]

Do you have any idea how minority religions are treated in the majority of countries where Islam is the predominant religion? It's not exactly pretty, and certainly not peaceful.

As for context, I've seen many verses calling for the death or punishment of unbelievers, with no context given towards whether the aggressor matters or not. You know more though, so teach.

I don't even need to teach-- facts talk. Why can you still find Christians in the Middle East? Why can you still find churches in the Middle East if what you say is true?

If Christianity is more peaceful, why did the entire Muslim population of Spain get wiped out? Is Christianity inherently violent to non-believers? I guess it must be.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Side note: the historical Islamic empire being seen as a beacon of freedom (as interpreted by some) to practice religion isn't wholly correct-- primarily for members of non-Abrahamic faiths. Jews and Christians were treated incredibly well, relative to the flip side in every region of the world for millennia.

Still, they treated "nonbeliever" pagans and Zoroastrians quite cruelly. However, this notion of Islam being uniquely cruel to "nonbelievers" is categorically false, and hilariously ironic coming from a Christian.

 

[fishonjazz]

Personally I'm not looking forward to gas attacks, bombings

I'm curious to why there are way more shootings than there are bombings and gas attacks.
Could it be that guns are much easier to use, much more efficient in getting the job done and much easier to get?

I think if guns were banned we would not just see there be way more bombings and gas attacks. I think the simplicity and effectiveness of guns is part of the reason for so many homicides

 

[fishonjazz]

I mean, nobody can deny this kid was racist, right? Even Bill O'Reilly called this a racist hate crime.

I vote yes that the dude was racist

 

[fishonjazz]

Hey dala, is this true?

As for context, I've seen many verses calling for the death or punishment of non believers

 

[RandyForRubio]

Dala, I want to start out by saying I think you're a great guy. I have no issue with you, I just struggle with certain ideologies of the Muslim faith.

1) How can you tell me what I'm saying isn't true because of context, and then refuse to give me the context? That doesn't make sense.

2) I have several close friends who either are, or have been missionaries in the Middle East. To be more specific, Turkey. They made some great friends there. It was and is a terrifying time for them. They aren't allowed to outright say what they're doing, or they get deported. They have to be incredibly careful even talking about their religion for fear of attack. Their friends who have converted, they've been ostracized from their families, and in many cases beaten for their beliefs. My friends don't know whether they will be alive the next day, just because of what they believe and the country they are in. Based on those facts, I just cannot accept what you're saying.

 

[RandyForRubio]

And just to clarify, this is about the people, it's about the teaching. You don't see Jesus teaching to kill unbelievers. Muhammad you do.

 

[Siro]

Both Islam and Christianity have been cruel to unbelievers. Who cares which one had been worse? Jeez.

But for the record, Christianity had been worse.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Both Islam and Christianity have been cruel to unbelievers. Who cares which one had been worse? Jeez.

But for the record, Christianity had been worse.

I would agree that people who claim to follow each religion have been cruel. People are, and always will be cruel. I was more trying to talk about the ideology of both and how they do, or should impact their followers.

 

[Siro]

I would agree that people who claim to follow each religion have been cruel. People are, and always will be cruel. I was more trying to talk about the ideology of both and how they do, or should impact their followers.

Ideology of religion is a dynamic and ever changing thing. Historically speaking, Christianity had been crueler than Islam. Muslims were generally tolerant of Jews and Christians (not in today's standards of course), and conducted themselves more honorably in war. They avoided needless slaughter of civilians, allowed safe passage to defeated armies, never institutionalized torture, etc.

But in today's state of affairs, Christianity is generally a lot better than Islam. There is nothing worse for me than spending time with my "moderate" Muslim relatives.

 

[framer]

Cool anecdote-- but understand that it both doesn't answer my question, nor does it apply to what I said.

How many Moors are left in Spain from that era? What happened to them? How many leftover mosques can be found in Spain from that era, that weren't converted into cathedrals? Compare that to church numbers in the Middle East.

Which religion is more cruel to non-believers again? Cuz this is what Howard's point was.

Anecdote? That is history. OF course it applies to what you said. The Moors called Jihad on the indigenous Christians remaining in Spain. They threw them the Hell out once they had the advantage militarily. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Jihad under the Almohad empire. It was "convert or die." The Christians went with option 3, "kick your *** back to Morocco." That is why there aren't Moors in Spain. It wasn't an evil plot hatched by Christians to deny religious freedom to the Moslems, it was self preservation. YOUR anecdote is completely invalid. You wondered what happened to the Moslem kingdom in Spain, I told you. It just wasn't the Howard Zinn bull**** you wanted to hear.

 

[moevillini]

Let's lighten things up with some good ol Dutchrudder neg rep:

The rebel flag is not a symbol of racism. learn your history BRO. if any the slave ship had the stripes and stars. the rebel flag was on none of the slave ships

There certainly were no slaves ships that flew either the U.S. flag or the flag of the Confederacy because the importation of slaves from Africa was abolished by Congress in 1807, and most of the ships importing African slaves prior to that time were either Dutch or British.