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The Biden Administration and All Things Politics


The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Sacrificing the long term justice and equality of those in our society for short term economy gains and a sense of harmony has been a repeated pattern in our country.

Again, it goes back to the type of society we want to have. Do you want to have a multi-racial democracy? Or are you cool with authoritarianism as long as your privileged race or class feels harmony?
 


Al-O-Meter

Well-Known Member
you're making the exact same arguments as those illiberal forces before; accusing the pro-democratic and equality forces as being "divisive."
I'm making the argument that the forces demanding people today pick a side to be on, the side of one party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with or the other party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with, as being "divisive". The rest are things I haven't said.

The issue is whether we're going to be a multi-racial democracy or not.
I'm pulling for a colorblind Constitutional Republic myself.

Just like in 1898...
Back in 1898 you say? :rolleyes:
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I'm making the argument that the forces demanding people today pick a side to be on, the side of one party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with or the other party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with, as being "divisive". The rest are things I haven't said.


I'm pulling for a colorblind Constitutional Republic myself.


Back in 1898 you say? :rolleyes:
Yes, if you had been more historically literate, you’d know what 1898 represented. I’ve given you the introduction, now do your own homework.

You’d also know what MLK said about “color blindness.”
We do not need allies who are more devoted to order than to justice,” he wrote in a letter to civil rights leaders. “I hear a lot of talk these days about our direct action program alienating former friends. I would rather feel that they are bringing to the surface many latent prejudices which were always there.”
In a United States where ethnic communities are experiencing violentattacks, where white nationalists parade with tiki torches, and where disdain for people of color spews from the White House, it is easy to focus on the crassest forms of racism infecting our nation. But to take seriously King’s life and work, we also must reckon with his long-standing critique of the “polite” racism of his liberal allies, of the language and the policies they employed to excuse and perpetuate racial injustice. King called out the systemic cruelty of such racism, of allies who supported civil rights while criticizing its tactics, who denounced discrimination elsewhere but explained away prejudices at home.

This King has much to say about our contemporary moment, about this presidential campaign season and the injustices that plague our blue cities as well as our red states. More than 50 years after King called out white liberals, many are still employing the polite racism that he decried.
Also:

Neutrality never benefits the oppressed, only the oppressor

 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
American democracy died in the early 2020s. Elections no longer mattered, political enemies were persecuted, and opposition crushed as a right wing authoritarian party funded by billionaires controlled the mechanisms of power. Freedoms of speech were curtailed, immigration shut down, and minorities lost their voices.

But it no longer mattered because Americans were mostly entertained by their phones, right wing media controlled people through racism and Christian wedge issues, and the price of gas was slightly lower than it was under Biden. Besides, one political party never agreed that he won with a multi-racial coalition so they decided to wreck all of american democracy so Christian white males primarily could control the country. Just like Hungary, Poland, and Russia.

- Canadian Historian in the year 2050
 

Red

Well-Known Member
I agree that social cohesion is a serious issue but I don't see a lot of evidence that global leaders, or at least our President is terrified of it. On the contrary, Joe Biden seems to be deliberately ripping the nation into pieces to play one off the other. There was a poll out recently from Quinnipiac that showed 76% of Americans believed political instability was the biggest threat our nation faced. A plurality of respondents in that poll said they believed Biden is doing more to divide the country.


Immediately after this poll was released showing that a plurality of Americans believed Joe Biden was dividing the country, Joe seemed to feel the need to prove all those people correct. His very next public speech told Americans to pick a side. Are they going to be on this side or that side? To make sure his meaning wasn't missed for being to subtle, he invoked names from the actual American Civil War where Americans took up arms to kill each other! "Do you want to be on the side of Abraham Lincoln or Jefferson Davis?” Biden said. If you want the United States to descend into Civil War, Joe Biden is your guy.
Didn’t he also say, as a candidate, and again recently, that we’re engaged in a battle “for the soul of the nation”? That’s an undefinable kind of idea I guess, suggesting to me the question “who do we want to be”? One of the two major parties seems to be divorced from reality in their interpretation of, and reaction to, recent history. One struggles to understand how there can be any dialog at all with people divorced from reality. In some instances, even willing to see the insurrectionists of 1/6 as the actual “true Americans”, the “patriots” on 1/6. Certainly, those who believe that, are at least psychologically at war with what they view as an illegitimate government. It likely is a low grade civil war from their perspective. Not every Republican would call the insurrectionists the “real patriots”, but their silence and rejection of the 1/6 committee is tacit approval of the warped mind of Donald Trump, and his power to dictate the party line.

Whatever else I want, I can’t see rallying around a lie and letting a lie inspire actions at the state level to stack the deck for a party still allied tightly with a power hungry, seemingly very mentally sick man. Find the surveys that find each side sees the other as a grave danger to America, something to that effect is out there, and, at least psychologically, as it were, we seem to already be in a low grade civil war.

It’s a shame, but the republicans are fine with 1/6. Biden was speaking of their efforts to possibly subvert democracy at the state level. In response to a stolen election that was never stolen, but in the aftermath of which, many of them acted in support of both Trump’s lie, and Trump’s effort to himself steal the election. Seems to me THEY want to precipitate civil war acting like that. They wanted to overturn a legitimate election. These are loyal Americans? That seems WAY more divisive than anything Biden said. Seems seditious, what state would we be in if they had succeeded? Seems silly to accuse Biden of dangerous speech that divides Americans under the circumstances. Think the Republicans kinda outdid him dividing Americans. Bigly.

On the other hand, just saw a poll saying only 6% of the electorate consider election reform an important issue. That wouldn’t surprise me, either. I expect the worst, barring somebody, or some issue, who can inspire the higher angels of our nature.
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Didn’t he also say, as a candidate, and again recently, that we’re engaged in a battle “for the soul of the nation”? That’s an undefinable kind of idea I guess, suggesting to me the question “who do we want to be”? One of the two major parties seems to be divorced from reality in their interpretation of, and reaction to, recent history. One struggles to understand how there can be any dialog at all with people divorced from reality. In some instances, even willing to see the insurrectionists of 1/6 as the actual “true Americans”, the “patriots” on 1/6. Certainly, those who believe that, are at least psychologically at war with what they view as an illegitimate government. It likely is a low grade civil war from their perspective. Not every Republican would call the insurrectionists the “real patriots”, but their silence and rejection of the 1/6 committee is tacit approval of the warped mind of Donald Trump, and his power to dictate the party line.

Whatever else I want, I can’t see rallying around a lie and letting a lie inspire actions at the state level to stack the deck for a party still allied tightly with a power hungry, seemingly very mentally sick man. Find the surveys that find each side sees the other as a grave danger to America, something to that effect is out there, and, at least psychologically, as it were, we seem to already be in a low grade civil war.

It’s a shame, but the republicans are fine with 1/6. Biden was speaking of their efforts to possibly subvert democracy at the state level. In response to a stolen election that was never stolen, but in the aftermath of which, many of them acted in support of both Trump’s lie, and Trump’s effort to himself steal the election. Seems to me THEY want to precipitate civil war acting like that. They wanted to overturn a legitimate election. These are loyal Americans? That seems WAY more divisive than anything Biden said. Seems seditious, what state would we be in if they had succeeded? Seems silly to accuse Biden of dangerous speech that divides Americans under the circumstances. Think the Republicans kinda outdid him dividing Americans. Bigly.

On the other hand, just saw a poll saying only 6% of the electorate consider election reform an important issue. That wouldn’t surprise me, either. I expect the worst, barring somebody, or some issue, who can inspire the higher angels of our nature.
Good post. Hard for Biden to be seen as successful or a unifier when one entire political party completely views him as illegitimate and his voters as being aliens, undeserving of having any political rights.


What are republicans doing to unite the country?
 

Al-O-Meter

Well-Known Member
You’d also know what MLK said about “color blindness.”
No idea but I do know he died over half a century ago and in a different world. MLK Jr. was a product of a time closer to 1898 than to today. I'm more concerned with what the current President of the United States said two days ago.

I also know what constant fawning for the Black vote with transparently fake white supremacy-this and systemic racism-that is doing to move opinion in the Hispanic community.

Biden-Hispanic-Support.jpg


What are republicans doing to unite the country?
Not being crazy. By public opinion polling it appears that not being crazy has universal appeal.
 

Al-O-Meter

Well-Known Member
...their silence and rejection of the 1/6 committee...
The people who breached the Capitol on January 6 are real Americans. They are criminals and should all be prosecuted but I do not believe we should revoke their citizenship. Jail is fine.

As for the 1/6 committee, it is a joke. First of all it is not the role of Congress to prosecute Americans. We have police and a justice system for that. Even if Congress did have the police power to enforce the law, putting on a musical number with Lin-Manuel Miranda and the Hamilton cast as part of the enforcement proceedings is not usually how quests for justice go in the real world, but I'll admit that having a moment of silence with candlelight vigil for all of the woman who was shot was a nice touch. It is a show to distract from how bad Democrats are doing with their majorities in the House, Senate, and Presidency. Why would the Republicans want to join in? Maybe some of them can sing and dance but I would rather they set about limiting the damage the majority can do for the rest of this year while trying to figure out how to convince the American public to remove those goofballs from power.
 
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Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Japan, South Korea, and Vietnam aren’t in Asia?

South Korea currently has a 93 percent vax rate and 40 percent boosted. South Korea has 6,200 deaths for the entire pandemic, which would basically be half a week here in the United States. Kansas has more Covid deaths than South Korea despite having 1/25th the population.

That’s not figuring it out? Goodness. I’d love to hear your contradictory arguments.

The United States has such a god awful Covid response, safety net, and health care system. It’s why we’re going to see over 1 million dead by spring break. We account for 20 percent Of the total deaths from this pandemic. Many other countries have figured it out, we haven’t.

Mask wearing, testing and tracing, good ventilation, and vaccination really work. States have millions sitting in the coffers from the fed gov that they’re not using to end this pandemic.
They are still dealing with it. It's still a huge problem there. Less people dying is great, that doesn't mean it's okay in those places. They haven't figured it out. They are dealing with the new variants as well. They are dealing with problems as well.
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Not being crazy. By public opinion polling it appears that not being crazy has universal appeal.
Lol. It doesn't get crazier than MTG. How about believing jews controlling space lazers to start california wildfires? Kinda crazy right?
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
The people who breached the Capitol on January 6 are real Americans. They are criminals and should all be prosecuted but I do not believe we should revoke their citizenship. Jail is fine.

As for the 1/6 committee, it is a joke. First of all it is not the role of Congress to prosecute Americans. We have police and a justice system for that. Even if Congress did have the police power to enforce the law, putting on a musical number with Lin-Manuel Miranda and the Hamilton cast as part of the enforcement proceedings is not usually how quests for justice go in the real world, but I'll admit that having a moment of silence with candlelight vigil for all of the woman who was shot was a nice touch. It is a show to distract from how bad Democrats are doing with their majorities in the House, Senate, and Presidency. Why would the Republicans want to join in? Maybe some of them can sing and dance but I would rather they set about limiting the damage the majority can do for the rest of this year while trying to figure out how to convince the American public to remove those goofballs from power.
You say that they are criminals and should be prosecuted. Police dont prosecute. Prosecuters (lawyers) do. Anywho, if you think they should be prosecuted then why not by congress? Are there any folks in congress with a law degree do you reckon? Plus judges are doing the sentencing which is the important thing here.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
As for the 1/6 committee, it is a joke.
From an interview of Yale historian Timothy Snyder:

“Are you encouraged at all by the work of the January 6 committee and also the charges that the Department of Justice unveiled, where they've actually started charging people with seditious conspiracy?

I hate to always be negative, and I won't be, but let me just start with a proviso. It's really too bad that, thanks to the archaic institution known as the filibuster, we don't have a bipartisan January 6th committee. We did have majorities in both the house and the Senate for something like that, but nevertheless, it doesn't exist. And that's a shame because democracy depends upon reflection and self-correction, and the January 6th committee is about reflection and self-correction, and so it's too bad that it couldn't have been done in the broadest way possible”.

That said, the work that it's doing is incredibly important. Democracy depends upon facts. Democracy depends upon knowing what's going on, operating in the shadow of a big lie, as a lot of us are doing — and even those of us who don't believe in the lie have to deal with it all the time — is incompatible with democracy. Myths and personality cults, and massive doses of self-deception, are incompatible with democracy. Figuring out just what happened, step by step, is compatible because it gives us that chance to reflect and to improve and to move on. So the work that the January 6th committee is doing is absolutely indispensable.
 

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