The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[fishonjazz]

When I bought my first home back in 2009 I got an 8,500 tax credit the next tax season. It was awesome! Helped me so so much! Many other americans also received that financial assistance. Now according to many republicans all that money being given to those who needed it by the government should have ruined the country and been the countries downfall. Yet just a few short years later the economy and stock market etc was doing better than ever before.

 

[gandalfe]

No they didn’t force anyone to start their own business. So if I start my own business and it fails, does the government come in and pay for all my business debt and personal debit that I used to create a business? Because, you know I need help with my loans and debt.

Should all businesses get their debt paid for if they are not successful? Or does the person know the risk of starting a business?

So what about the persons who got hired by a smaller company that relied on the PPP to help pay for that persons salary and not lay them off even though it didn’t cover all the salary and the business paid the rest. Should the government pay the business the extra difference?



So when someone struggles, not caused by the government, the government should help?
Once again, should the government pay a persons business debt, because they are struggling with business debt?


Government forced is not a risk.


You did receive government financial help. Did you ever get money from the Covid stimulus payments?

One thing that hasn't been brought up:

If you have a business that goes into debt, you (or your business) can declare bankruptcy and have the debt wiped out.

You can't do that with student loan debt.

 

[Bucknutz]

One thing that hasn't been brought up:

If you have a business that goes into debt, you (or your business) can declare bankruptcy and have the debt wiped out.

You can't do that with student loan debt.

Depends on what bankruptcy option you choose. If you choose to wipe it out you can loose personal assets as well, including your home. Or you can choose to pay the debt in a restructuring deal.
But again the government doesn’t come in and pay off the debt so you can keep your assets.

 

[Bucknutz]

I always like when people who need help get help. Its really quite simple. You wont get me to complain about people needing help getting help. Sorry. Farmers have been given handouts to keep going. Love it. Banks were bailed out in the recession. A few years later the economy was booming. Thank god they got the assistance they needed even though it was their own mistakes that caused the mess. Im still happy that the country recovered. I love this country.

I’m not arguing against helping with student debt. But this does absolutely nothing to stop the issue from continuing. There needs to be a fundamental change when it comes to higher learning and how to pay for it.

The cost of school keeps going up and the loans will continue to get larger and then in the near future when more people are in more school debt, we won’t be talking about billions in bail out.

 

[Gameface]

I don’t believe it’s connected. Did the government force people to go to college and take on massive loans? Did the government force people to go to expensive colleges?

fish already said it, but did the government force people to open a business?

Great to hear that. But you can still be a smug ******* on certain topics. So it’s okay to personally attack my “pee pee program sensitivity”, but not someone who has been site for 10 years. It’s okay to personally attack “trumpers“ non stop for 7 years but not a poster you find reasonable. Got it. Just selective attacks are not okay with you.

I'm a smug *** for sure a lot of the time. I think the way I present my opinions on the internet is 1000% different than I would ever present them in person. I think that's true for a lot of people.

I'm not innocent from trying to score lols sometimes, even thought I'm embarrassingly bad at it. Pee Pee Program was a cheap attempt at cheap humor. Yeah, I mean it's still intended in a confrontational way, but it was mostly meant to be stupidly funny, I mean I know it's no "let's go Brandon" but maybe it was something on the level of "libtard" or one of those fancy zingers the Trump crowd has made so popular lately.

It’s not about me. Its about everyone who was forced to shut down. States that shut down businesses. Local cities that shut down businesses. This is why people are worse off now then before.

Yeah, tell me about it! I know a few human beings who shut down as a result of COVID. They and the people who loved them are far worse off now than they were before COVID.

So trade careers are not beneficial? Are gig workers not beneficial? You are not forced into going to college to be beneficial to this country. Explain to me why some professions need a degree? Why does a retail manager need a degree? Can they not learn what is taught in college through experience and training in a corporate setting? Why take out a $50,000 loan to go to Ohio State to get a BA in Business and work retail? Why can’t an accountant go to a trade school for accountants that can be subsidized by the big 4 accounting firms or other firms. Have a work and learn program that benefits both sides. No they want you to take out a $80,000 loan for a masters degree that you have to spend $20,000 of on BS classes that have no association with your profession. Then get a $55k starting salary and take years to pay off loans.

There needs to be a new modern form of an education system.

I'm a ****ing High School drop out. I got technical training in the U.S. Navy. I was able to get into the Navy at 23 years old, after having tried to join when I was 19, because I got my juvenile record expunged, enrolled at Horizonte to get the last 1/4 credit I needed for a HS Diploma and waited 3 months after I failed the pre-bootcamp drug test for MJ (when I tried to join in 1999 they didn't test until you got to bootcamp).

I have worked my entire adult life in jobs I was able to get due to the training I got in the Navy. I'm happy the Navy was there to give me technical training, and was willing to give me an opportunity based on my test taking ability. I had worked many jobs before the Navy. I was a: waiter(Lonestar Steakhouse, The Retirement Inn at Cottonwood Creek), a short order cook (Hardees), dishwasher (Hires Big H, Outback Steakhouse), a cashier (Shopko, Payless Drug Store), a prep cook (Outback Steakhouse), a warehouse order puller (Reuel's Art and Frame, Goodyear), worker at a plant/tree nursery (can't remember the name), temp agency general laborer, stone setter (O.C. Tanner), laser engraving R&D (O.C.Tanner). EDIT: I forgot one (at least), receiving operator (NPS) this was one of my most enjoyable jobs. NPS buys unclaimed packages from FedEx, UPS, USPS and the like. My job was to open each box, enter a description of the contents, print out a label and attach it to the box, then move the box to the correct pile if there wasn't a helper that day to move the box. The NPS job paid full on poop but it was honestly the most satisfying paid work I've ever done. Some of you might know NPS as the grocery store that has a section called "the out of date deli" *not a joke*

It would have been very nice if instead of being fed this life or death myth about college by every single person in any school setting there would have been realistic options to pursue trades instead of mixed academics.

One is Forced the other is a choice.


After saying all this, I would be fine with paying off all Student debt. If and only when, there is a new education system in place and a clear choice is placed before each student. If you go to a traditional college, you have the risk of taking on debit that the government will not be backing (Should be a school risk not a government risk). Go to a trade school and have it subsidized or go to a new educational system (education marketplace) that is covered by the government.

 

[The Thriller]

fish already said it, but did the government force people to open a business?

I'm a smug *** for sure a lot of the time. I think the way I present my opinions on the internet is 1000% different than I would ever present them in person. I think that's true for a lot of people.

I'm not innocent from trying to score lols sometimes, even thought I'm embarrassingly bad at it. Pee Pee Program was a cheap attempt at cheap humor. Yeah, I mean it's still intended in a confrontational way, but it was mostly meant to be stupidly funny, I mean I know it's no "let's go Brandon" but maybe it was something on the level of "libtard" or one of those fancy zingers the Trump crowd has made so popular lately.

Yeah, tell me about it! I know a few human beings who shut down as a result of COVID. They and the people who loved them are far worse off now than they were before COVID.

I'm a ****ing High School drop out. I got technical training in the U.S. Navy. I was able to get into the Navy at 23 years old, after having tried to join when I was 19, because I got my juvenile record expunged, enrolled at Horizonte to get the last 1/4 credit I needed for a HS Diploma and waited 3 months after I failed the pre-bootcamp drug test for MJ (when I tried to join in 1999 they didn't test until you got to bootcamp).

I have worked my entire adult life in jobs I was able to get due to the training I got in the Navy. I'm happy the Navy was there to give me technical training, and was willing to give me an opportunity based on my test taking ability. I had worked many jobs before the Navy. I was a: waiter(Lonestar Steakhouse, The Retirement Inn at Cottonwood Creek), a short order cook (Hardees), dishwasher (Hires Big H, Outback Steakhouse), a cashier (Shopko, Payless Drug Store), a prep cook (Outback Steakhouse), a warehouse order puller (Reuel's Art and Frame, Goodyear), worker at a plant/tree nursery (can't remember the name), temp agency general laborer, stone setter (O.C. Tanner), laser engraving R&D (O.C.Tanner).

It would have been very nice if instead of being fed this life or death myth about college by every single person in any school setting there would have been realistic options to pursue trades instead of mixed academics.

Just to add, government wasn’t solely responsible for businesses shutting down during the pandemic. Many of my wife’s clients who received “pee pee” funding couldn’t do business regardless of what the state government mandated. Hard to sell lavender oil during a ****ing pandemic that is spread through the air. One in particular was a private company that provides medical equipment for elective surgery. The government didn’t tell them to stop doing business. They made that decision themselves because performing elective surgery on patients during a pandemic that is spread through the air would be ridiculously stupid.

I think we need to stop blaming business shutdowns on the government, regardless of what Fox News says. A certain virus that has killed over one million Americans played a key role in many business decisions to close down. Duh gubbamint isn’t always the bad guy. In fact, had we ignored Covid even more than we did, how many more would’ve died? Two million? Five? Millions dying isn’t good for business.

 

[Bucknutz]

fish already said it, but did the government force people to open a business?

I'm a smug *** for sure a lot of the time. I think the way I present my opinions on the internet is 1000% different than I would ever present them in person. I think that's true for a lot of people.

I'm not innocent from trying to score lols sometimes, even thought I'm embarrassingly bad at it. Pee Pee Program was a cheap attempt at cheap humor. Yeah, I mean it's still intended in a confrontational way, but it was mostly meant to be stupidly funny, I mean I know it's no "let's go Brandon" but maybe it was something on the level of "libtard" or one of those fancy zingers the Trump crowd has made so popular lately.

Yeah, tell me about it! I know a few human beings who shut down as a result of COVID. They and the people who loved them are far worse off now than they were before COVID.

I'm a ****ing High School drop out. I got technical training in the U.S. Navy. I was able to get into the Navy at 23 years old, after having tried to join when I was 19, because I got my juvenile record expunged, enrolled at Horizonte to get the last 1/4 credit I needed for a HS Diploma and waited 3 months after I failed the pre-bootcamp drug test for MJ (when I tried to join in 1999 they didn't test until you got to bootcamp).

I have worked my entire adult life in jobs I was able to get due to the training I got in the Navy. I'm happy the Navy was there to give me technical training, and was willing to give me an opportunity based on my test taking ability. I had worked many jobs before the Navy. I was a: waiter(Lonestar Steakhouse, The Retirement Inn at Cottonwood Creek), a short order cook (Hardees), dishwasher (Hires Big H, Outback Steakhouse), a cashier (Shopko, Payless Drug Store), a prep cook (Outback Steakhouse), a warehouse order puller (Reuel's Art and Frame, Goodyear), worker at a plant/tree nursery (can't remember the name), temp agency general laborer, stone setter (O.C. Tanner), laser engraving R&D (O.C.Tanner).

I love hearing this. You took an opportunity with the military which trained you for a career, without taking on the debt. A great option for youth as well. I had a great friend who went to dental school paid by the military for so many years of service. Got an education and training without taking on debt. Then he got out of the military and took on debt to start his own practice.

It would have been very nice if instead of being fed this life or death myth about college by every single person in any school setting there would have been realistic options to pursue trades instead of mixed academics.

Agreed.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m not arguing against helping with student debt. But this does absolutely nothing to stop the issue from continuing. There needs to be a fundamental change when it comes to higher learning and how to pay for it.

The cost of school keeps going up and the loans will continue to get larger and then in the near future when more people are in more school debt, we won’t be talking about billions in bail out.

I agree 100%. Btw, I enjoy your contributions and Im sorry that you get ganged up on. I will try to refrain from commenting when someone else is debating with you as I know how that can feel like being attacked by a bunch of people at once and it isn't deserved.

 

[Bucknutz]

Just to add, government wasn’t solely responsible for businesses shutting down during the pandemic. Many of my wife’s clients who received “pee pee” funding couldn’t do business regardless of what the state government mandated. Hard to sell lavender oil during a ****ing pandemic that is spread through the air.

Online sales and big businesses (Walmart, target, etc…) could sell them. Why did the government shut down small businesses and not big businesses?
Amazon grew about 200% during the pandemic. Why could they work but not a small business that would be willing to make deliveries?

One in particular was a private company that provides medical equipment for elective surgery. The government didn’t tell them to stop doing business. They made that decision themselves because performing elective surgery on patients during a pandemic that is spread through the air would be ridiculously stupid.

Another Dentist friend was shut down by the government due to not being “essential”. He got the PPP to keep paying payroll, but it still didn’t cover it all. Yet my dentist friend in the military was getting his paycheck every month for not working. So the government got to choose who to hurt and who to protect.

I think we need to stop blaming business shutdowns on the government, regardless of what Fox News says. A certain virus that has killed over one million Americans played a key role in many business decisions to close down. Duh gubbamint isn’t always the bad guy. In fact, had we ignored Covid even more than we did, how many more would’ve died? Two million? Five? Millions dying isn’t good for business.

The virus didn’t shut down the country, the government did. 250,000 people die every year by medical errors. We don’t shut down anything for that. Car accidents kill 40,000 people a year but we don’t shut down the roads. 90,000 people die a year with overdoses but we don’t shut down anything to stop that.

States opened at different times, so yes the government did shut down businesses. The virus was still here yet the states didn’t have a singular plan for reopening.

You are making up numbers about additional deaths. Sweden didn’t shut down yet they had a lower mortality rate than the US. They also kept kids in school.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[Bucknutz]

I agree 100%. Btw, I enjoy your contributions and Im sorry that you get ganged up on. I will try to refrain from commenting when someone else is debating with you as I know how that can feel like being attacked by a bunch of people at once and it isn't deserved.

Don’t, I love it, I just want to stay on the topic I wrote about or responded to. Push back at anytime. That’s all I’m doing. At first I got bugged by One Brow by his responses, but it forced me to think about things I wrote a bit more.
I honestly don’t feel ganged up on at all. I feel that debating educates me, and forces me to learn subjects or topics and understand others opinions. I don’t post on all topics and debates because I like to read the back and forth and go research both sides.

 

[Hax0rs]

When I bought my first home back in 2009 I got an 8,500 tax credit the next tax season. It was awesome! Helped me so so much!

Yeah, then in 2011, you paid the IRS for that 8500 tax credit as if it was income. You also paid in 2011, for whatever you got from your return in 2010...So dumb

 

[The Thriller]

Party of family values!

I’m just gonna leave this right here…

 

[One Brow]

The main issue I have with all of this is: Why have a legislative branch at all?

There was a time when, even with all the partisan rancor, both parties in Congress seemed to understand that Congress was important to making government work, and wanted afunctional government. Unfortunately, the Republican priorities shifted in the mid-90s to gumming government the process up. Yet, the country still must function.

 

[One Brow]

This is a very ignorant comment. You sound like you have never ran a business in your life. Did you own a business that got shut down for 3,6, or more months because it wasn’t “Essential”?

Did you keep your employees on staff and paid their salaries so they too wouldn’t be hurt financially? Did you go through the hell to get your funds approved?

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2006991117

An average business had about 2 months or less of cash on hand to weather a crisis. Then you had to pay to get your business to be Covid compliant to reopen. Businesses are still affected by the shutdowns. Hiring, back orders and other Covid issues.

Do you know what you could spend the PPP money on?

Up until this point, I thought this was a good post.

This is why I started posting on this site again because of these ignorant posts from smug assholes on Covid, shut downs and business. These “educators” or government workers didn’t care. They kept their jobs, income and then got paid out Covid relief money as a bonus.

What a terrible comment and a disgusting person .

This part really brought down the rest of the post.

 

[One Brow]

Explain to me why some professions need a degree? Why does a retail manager need a degree?

That's decided by the people who hire retail managers, not the government nor the workers.

Can they not learn what is taught in college through experience and training in a corporate setting? Why take out a $50,000 loan to go to Ohio State to get a BA in Business and work retail? Why can’t an accountant go to a trade school for accountants that can be subsidized by the big 4 accounting firms or other firms. Have a work and learn program that benefits both sides. No they want you to take out a $80,000 loan for a masters degree that you have to spend $20,000 of on BS classes that have no association with your profession. Then get a $55k starting salary and take years to pay off loans.

All of that can happen, if the employers want it to. However, accounting firms don't want to be bothered with investment of time and money it would take train a bunch of 18-year-olds in accounting, especially when half of them would quit half-way through the program. Instead, employers want to hire people who bring a more rounded education into the workplace; people whose education they have made no investment in. It's much more cost-efficient for the employers that way.

One is Forced the other is a choice.

As you just pointed out, if you want to be an accountant, or many other professions, college is not a choice.

 

[One Brow]

Depends on what bankruptcy option you choose.

True. One option has a 0% chance of having your guaranteed student loans paid off, but the other does come with a massive 0.4% chance. Non-guaranteed student loans (PLUS loans and the like) are treated like ordinary debt, it seems.

Here's What Really Happens to Student Loans When You File Bankruptcy

Bankruptcy does not automatically discharge student loans, but there are instances where you could get your student loan debt wiped clean.

studentloanhero.com

 

[One Brow]

Don’t, I love it, I just want to stay on the topic I wrote about or responded to. Push back at anytime. That’s all I’m doing. At first I got bugged by One Brow by his responses, but it forced me to think about things I wrote a bit more.

I can think of no better compliment and no better legacy. I'm blushing. Thank you.

 

[gandalfe]

I’m not arguing against helping with student debt. But this does absolutely nothing to stop the issue from continuing. There needs to be a fundamental change when it comes to higher learning and how to pay for it.

The cost of school keeps going up and the loans will continue to get larger and then in the near future when more people are in more school debt, we won’t be talking about billions in bail out.

This I absolutely agree with. Right now, this was a tourniquet on a victim of a car crash. Sure, it's helpful, but there's a lot more wrong.

I actually put a lot of the blame on Bill Clinton. He worked to change the focus from AVAILABILITY to AFFORDABILITY, and really pushed the idea of student loans. The problem is, because now 19 year olds had all this cash which was really only dependent on the cost of the school, there was nothing to stop the schools from raising their tuition, and fees, and and and...

 

[The Thriller]

This I absolutely agree with. Right now, this was a tourniquet on a victim of a car crash. Sure, it's helpful, but there's a lot more wrong.

I actually put a lot of the blame on Bill Clinton. He worked to change the focus from AVAILABILITY to AFFORDABILITY, and really pushed the idea of student loans. The problem is, because now 19 year olds had all this cash which was really only dependent on the cost of the school, there was nothing to stop the schools from raising their tuition, and fees, and and and...

It’s not just tuition though. The largest expense is often housing. If landlords in college towns want to gouge students, what are the students going to do? When I went to school in Orem/Provo, rent could be had for $300 dollars a month. Now? That same dump will go for $900.

There really needs to be structural changes to our entire system:

• Housing
• Tuition (many states are giving tax cuts while placing the burden of financing the schools onto students)
• Overly focused on college and not trades
• Unregulated textbook practices (we all know publishers gouge students)
• Predatory lending practices
• The arms race for universities to have the coolest resorts er schools and sportsball stadiums
• Students clueless about what to study but are going to school because they think it’s what they have to do to be successful

Are all just a few examples.

 

[gandalfe]

It’s not just tuition though. The largest expense is often housing. If landlords in college towns want to gouge students, what are the students going to do? When I went to school in Orem/Provo, rent could be had for $300 dollars a month. Now? That same dump will go for $900.

You don't have to tell me. The town I live in has about 60,000 people, and the college here brings in about 30,000 students. Rents are through the roof, and much of it is single bedroom renters - so landlords set up a kichen and living room and charge $1000 a month per bedroom. I am not even being hyperbolic with those rates, either. I live just down the road from a complex of those.