Safetydan
Well-Known Member
Or if they **** the working class so hard that... oops! revolution.
The Biden Administration and All Things Politics
- Thread starter Avery
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Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
LOL. Because history is full of people revolutioning to bring about less capitalism. The working class does better under capitalism than any other system. You could ask the 100 million working class who died in the Great Leap Forward, except they're dead. There are the working class during the Khmer Rouge lazily lounging in the killing fields of Cambodia, except they're dead too. Working class who starve to death don't have much to say. Socialists are no different from flat-earthers: completely blind to the mountains of objective reality piled around them in every direction.
One Brow
Well-Known Member
Are they as blind as people who think there haven't been any Americans rebelling against capitalists?
Coal Wars - Wikipedia
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
You truly are magnificent in how fast you can construct strawmen. There is a reason those aren't called "Coal Revolutions". They are missing a key ingredient. I never said there weren't labor actions which turned bloody. I made fun of Safetydan for talking as if history is full of people revolutioning to bring about less capitalism. It isn't. If anything, that you have to grasp so hard to find anything even close proves my point.Are they as blind as people who think there haven't been any Americans rebelling against capitalists?
Coal Wars - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Avery
Well-Known Member
It's always been funny to me that we scream for less government control and overreach at the local, state and federal level yet simultaneously beg for the government to intervene and micromanage at the state, local and federal level when we disagree with scientists, economists, educators, and experts in their respective fields when it suits their agenda.
Politicians don't know **** about 95% of what they govern and decide - they simply wield swords to placate their constituents.
Politicians don't know **** about 95% of what they govern and decide - they simply wield swords to placate their constituents.
Avery
Well-Known Member
As a P.S., I do think a president should help inspire hope. That doesn't mean pump sunshine and ignore reality, but when you look through the lens of history, most presidents that we consider 'the best' have all offered up hope through difficult times. See Lincoln during the Civil War, Roosevelt during WWII, Washington as a nation found it's footing, etc.
A president should inspire and rally the family - they don't have to be and shouldn't be CEO's, but they do need to be thought leaders.
A president should inspire and rally the family - they don't have to be and shouldn't be CEO's, but they do need to be thought leaders.
fishonjazz
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They also shouldn't be in their 70's and/or douchebags imo
The douchebag part is hard to avoid. I cannot think of a single president in my time that didn't have at least douchey moments. At least 3 of the 7 that I have known in my lifetime were full on douchebags, I'll let you all decide which were and which weren't.
But the old part, well considering that the larger part of the voting public are older individuals, and for some reason we like old white men, well....yeah in that we are screwed.
Avery
Well-Known Member
Speaking of douchebags, Republicans are already gearing up to impeach Biden and make the next two years unbearable for him should they get ownership of the house and senate back. Guess the basis will be the border and the pandemic or some other reach.
I’m tired of politicians wasting our time and resources playing judge, jury and executioner instead of actually trying to make this country a better place. Vote them all out regardless of the letter by their name if they’re more interested in headlines and one-liners than governing for the common good.
I’m tired of politicians wasting our time and resources playing judge, jury and executioner instead of actually trying to make this country a better place. Vote them all out regardless of the letter by their name if they’re more interested in headlines and one-liners than governing for the common good.
Our entire political theater has devolved into a mass of wriggling parasites making sure they and their buddies can continue to feed on the public blood supply. No effort is made to improve anything and if it is, the other side makes sure to squash it so they can get the upper hand in the next election. That is their entire purpose any more. It was always part of it, but there was a time, not even that long ago....well I guess 40 or so years ago, that there was much more bipartisan effort being made. Not any more. Now the only votes allowed are to further their agenda and **** all over the other guy's agenda. It is a comical farce, that isn't really very funny.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Japan, South Korea, and Vietnam aren’t in Asia?
South Korea currently has a 93 percent vax rate and 40 percent boosted. South Korea has 6,200 deaths for the entire pandemic, which would basically be half a week here in the United States. Kansas has more Covid deaths than South Korea despite having 1/25th the population.
That’s not figuring it out? Goodness. I’d love to hear your contradictory arguments.
The United States has such a god awful Covid response, safety net, and health care system. It’s why we’re going to see over 1 million dead by spring break. We account for 20 percent Of the total deaths from this pandemic. Many other countries have figured it out, we haven’t.
Mask wearing, testing and tracing, good ventilation, and vaccination really work. States have millions sitting in the coffers from the fed gov that they’re not using to end this pandemic.
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The big problem with dealing with COVID in the US is the strong anti-government/anti-authority sentiments in much of the population, combined with loads and loads of misinformation, much of it malicious and intentional. But largely "mah freedumbs" takes precedence over protecting and preserving life in society. The previous administration did much to set us up for failure in spreading misinformation maliciously from the outset, as well as delaying our response to the pandemic. The current administration has been as good as invisible in all of it, so swinging that pendulum all the way the other way. We went from corrupt to inept leadership, the worst possible combination for dealing with the pandemic and our economic issues.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
I agree that social cohesion is a serious issue but I don't see a lot of evidence that global leaders, or at least our President is terrified of it. On the contrary, Joe Biden seems to be deliberately ripping the nation into pieces to play one off the other. There was a poll out recently from Quinnipiac that showed 76% of Americans believed political instability was the biggest threat our nation faced. A plurality of respondents in that poll said they believed Biden is doing more to divide the country.
Why global leaders are terrified about ‘social cohesion erosion’
According to a new survey from the World Economic Forum, it’s the fastest-growing threat to our planet since the COVID crisis struck.www.fastcompany.com
Political Instability Not U.S. Adversaries, Seen As Bigger Threat, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 6 In 10 Think Nation's Democracy Is In Danger Of Collapse | Quinnipiac University Poll
"A fear of the enemy within, not a foreign threat, punctuates a grim assessment by Americans of a democracy in peril and a future of deepening political divisions," said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.
poll.qu.edu
Immediately after this poll was released showing that a plurality of Americans believed Joe Biden was dividing the country, Joe seemed to feel the need to prove all those people correct. His very next public speech told Americans to pick a side. Are they going to be on this side or that side? To make sure his meaning wasn't missed for being to subtle, he invoked names from the actual American Civil War where Americans took up arms to kill each other! "Do you want to be on the side of Abraham Lincoln or Jefferson Davis?” Biden said. If you want the United States to descend into Civil War, Joe Biden is your guy.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
This is a remarkable post.I agree that social cohesion is a serious issue but I don't see a lot of evidence that global leaders, or at least our President is terrified of it. On the contrary, Joe Biden seems to be deliberately ripping the nation into pieces to play one off the other. There was a poll out recently from Quinnipiac that showed 76% of Americans believed political instability was the biggest threat our nation faced. A plurality of respondents in that poll said they believed Biden is doing more to divide the country.
Political Instability Not U.S. Adversaries, Seen As Bigger Threat, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 6 In 10 Think Nation's Democracy Is In Danger Of Collapse | Quinnipiac University Poll
"A fear of the enemy within, not a foreign threat, punctuates a grim assessment by Americans of a democracy in peril and a future of deepening political divisions," said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.
Immediately after this poll was released showing that a plurality of Americans believed Joe Biden was dividing the country, Joe seemed to feel the need to prove all those people correct. His very next public speech told Americans to pick a side. Are they going to be on this side or that side? To make sure his meaning wasn't missed for being to subtle, he invoked names from the actual American Civil War where Americans took up arms to kill each other! "Do you want to be on the side of Abraham Lincoln or Jefferson Davis?” Biden said. If you want the United States to descend into Civil War, Joe Biden is your guy.
You are so historically illiterate that you literally repeat the same sad arguments against equality and democracy that have been made for hundreds of years.
Take for example, you accusing Biden of dividing America. Did you know that Alabama accused Lincoln of dividing the country?
You brought up Jefferson Davis, he too made threats if elections didn't work out the way he wanted:
What This Cruel War Was Over
The meaning of the Confederate flag is best discerned in the words of those who bore it.
www.theatlantic.com
You cited the poll which showed the majority of Americans believe democracy is in crisis. But you're too dishonest to tell the entire story:
The majority of those who believe democracy is at stake are upset because they don't believe Biden won. They want to believe the big lie.
Which goes to the root of the problem:
MANY AMERICANS ESPECIALLY ON THE RIGHT DO NOT WANT OR SUPPORT A MULTI-RACIAL DEMOCRACY.
Again, if you were historically literate, you'd know that this has been among the top problems in American society since the Civil War ended. Yes, slavery was technically outlawed but socially and politically, were blacks equal?
Throughout Reconstruction, blacks made strides in gaining political and social equality. They never obtained it but they made strides. The Republicans party with the help of loyal black voters kept things competitive between the two parties until the 1890s. This helped maintain black voting rights and representation.
Unfortunately, the late 19th and early 20th century put an end to that. In the 1890s the American south saw a horrendous economic recession. The Republicans party was thrown out of office and dropped its support of blacks. This encouraged the formation of black and white "fusionist" political parties and candidates. The Democratic establishment fearing these populist parties saw an opportunity. In order to regain power and repeal black voting rights and representation made blacks their scapegoat. They focused on white supremacy through hatred, fear, and often violence.
They accused blacks of ruining American democracy, making the recession worse, and taking the "white women." They preyed on the "fear" of whites being ruled by blacks. Here are a few of the hateful political cartoons of the pivotal 1898 election and race riots in North Carolina. Shortly after this election, blacks were stripped of office and voting rights until the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s.
1. Accusations of voter fraud from blacks. Hard not to see comparisons to the Big Lie spewing of dishonesty and controversy from the party of White Supremacy:
2. Preying on the fears of whites even going so far as to compare losing power to becoming enslaved:
3. Dividing Americans by conflating race with good governance:
4. Hinting at the use of violence being justified. Why is it justified? Because whiteness is honesty and "negro rule" isn't. Therefore, no white person could be honest by supporting blacks. therefore, violence and intimidation are completely justified in order to win political power:
So as you can see, the accusations of illiberal and racist forces in accusing those fighting for equality and democracy isn't new.
As you can see, white backlash against equality isn't new.
White supremacists fighting against equality and using fear and hate to fight back against democracy isn't anything new.
You would've fit right in with Jefferson Davis and segregationists.
You claim that the Civil War was over state's rights.
You blamed Lincoln for instigating it.
And now you're repeating the same tired attacks against equality and democracy as many of our white supremacists ancestors have done.
Time to learn from history man and change.
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Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
You do understand that when a plurality of Americans say Joe Biden is dividing the country, and I give a specific example of the type of speech giving people that impression, it isn't much of a retort to point to other people who talked about dividing the country, right? Just because you can whataboutism doesn't mean Joe Biden isn't pursing an actively divisive strategy with the potentially dangerous consequences for our nation.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
As has been repeated to you many times in this thread, you pick and choose the facts you want and are incredibly dishonest in your findings. Whataboutism? Dude, you’re ignoring that our democracy is under attack to blame Biden for inflation and the economy. Cmon. Talk about whataboutism!
The economy is the top concern. Biden is seen as being "too liberal" on the economy, which is most likely blowback from BBB failing and nonstop RW media's attacks on infrastructure. Which is ironic, in your poll it says:
So take what you want from that poll. Hard for Biden to be seen as a unifier when the majority of a political view him as illegitimate.
What I and probably most people find alarming is:
You have an entire political party that believe in The Big Lie. As has often been the case with white supremacy, you're making the exact same arguments as those illiberal forces before; accusing the pro-democratic and equality forces as being "divisive." Lincoln too was incredibly unpopular and divisive. The majority of Democrats during Reconstruction believed in the Lost Cause lie. So again, you're unwittingly falling for the same bunk as our ancestors.
Many in the poll are expressing unhappiness with the economy and pandemic. If we were in normal times, he should pay a political price. But we aren't in normal times. The issue today isn't what the appropriate tax rate should be or what the federal interest rate should be. The issue is whether we're going to be a multi-racial democracy or not.
Whether you want to admit it or not, you're actively fighting for authoritarianism by focusing on issues that the president either has little influence on or issues that really don't matter in the long run. Just like in 1898, folks voted on "kitchen table" issues like the economy and representation but the long game was ending multi-racial democracy in the south. I think we need to keep what's really at stake in mind.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Sacrificing the long term justice and equality of those in our society for short term economy gains and a sense of harmony has been a repeated pattern in our country.
Again, it goes back to the type of society we want to have. Do you want to have a multi-racial democracy? Or are you cool with authoritarianism as long as your privileged race or class feels harmony?
Again, it goes back to the type of society we want to have. Do you want to have a multi-racial democracy? Or are you cool with authoritarianism as long as your privileged race or class feels harmony?
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
I'm making the argument that the forces demanding people today pick a side to be on, the side of one party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with or the other party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with, as being "divisive". The rest are things I haven't said.
I'm pulling for a colorblind Constitutional Republic myself.
Back in 1898 you say?
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Yes, if you had been more historically literate, you’d know what 1898 represented. I’ve given you the introduction, now do your own homework.I'm making the argument that the forces demanding people today pick a side to be on, the side of one party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with or the other party in the American Civil War shooting guns at fellow Americans they disagreed with, as being "divisive". The rest are things I haven't said.
I'm pulling for a colorblind Constitutional Republic myself.
Back in 1898 you say?
You’d also know what MLK said about “color blindness.”
Also:
Opinion | Why the GOP stopped pretending to care about your voting rights
Conservatives have argued for decades that voting rights bills harm the conservative agenda.
www.msnbc.com
Neutrality never benefits the oppressed, only the oppressor
Elie Wiesel: 6 Powerful Quotes From the Holocaust Survivor
"Action is the only remedy to indifference: the most insidious danger of all"
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
American democracy died in the early 2020s. Elections no longer mattered, political enemies were persecuted, and opposition crushed as a right wing authoritarian party funded by billionaires controlled the mechanisms of power. Freedoms of speech were curtailed, immigration shut down, and minorities lost their voices.
But it no longer mattered because Americans were mostly entertained by their phones, right wing media controlled people through racism and Christian wedge issues, and the price of gas was slightly lower than it was under Biden. Besides, one political party never agreed that he won with a multi-racial coalition so they decided to wreck all of american democracy so Christian white males primarily could control the country. Just like Hungary, Poland, and Russia.
- Canadian Historian in the year 2050
But it no longer mattered because Americans were mostly entertained by their phones, right wing media controlled people through racism and Christian wedge issues, and the price of gas was slightly lower than it was under Biden. Besides, one political party never agreed that he won with a multi-racial coalition so they decided to wreck all of american democracy so Christian white males primarily could control the country. Just like Hungary, Poland, and Russia.
- Canadian Historian in the year 2050