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The Biden Administration and All Things Politics


One Brow

Well-Known Member
The secret is that every person on earth is misguided, uninformed, and frankly, deceived. That is what it is to be a human.
True, but also there are degrees of each of them. Some people are ore misguided, less informed, and/or more deceived than others.

It is said to never meet your heroes because the admiration you have for them is nearly always excessive.
I also agree, and while I acknowledge people that I often agree with, I try to avoid having personal heroes.

I know you think Trump is a special case, but he’s just a guy you’ll never meet and who has next to no impact on your life outside of being the subject of an awful lot of media you take in.
Being POTUS/running for POTUS means having an impact. AFAICT, Trump is the most influential member of one of the two dominant political parties, which again means he has an impact.
 


Al-O-Meter

Well-Known Member
For me what landed him on my ignore list was a build up that culminated in his cavalier attitude in regards to jan 6th. His stance was/is basically who care what the protesters did as long as the final result was biden sworn into office? Like what if the protesters killed 100 people but biden was still sworn into office? Would the fact that 100 people were killed not matter at all?
That complete dismissal of what happened on january 6th was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
To be clear, that was never a thing I said.

What I DID point out were the events of January 6 were ceremonial only and had nothing to do with democracy because it was the recognition of the votes of the electoral college, the body of our republic that elects the president. My position was that all of this was and is a law enforcement issue, that I supported charging everyone, and even supported bringing charges against Trump himself. I believe a court room, with full discovery, the power of subpoenas, and professional legal advocates arguing both sides is the proper venue for all of this.
I'm not at all upset over potential criminal charges being filed against the former President. There should be a full accounting with a full discovery and advocates on both sides in a proper setting.
If 100 people had died, then I’d still want to see the perpetrators tried in a courtroom with a judge, lawyers, etc. I believe that even the obviously guilty deserve a fair trial. Crazy me. I do not think our justice system should be a legislative branch committee putting on a show with the cast of Hamilton and a former ABC News executive working as a producer to package it for a prime time audience where they say at the outset they don’t plan on referring anyone to the DOJ.

My dismissiveness of the January 6th committee should not be read as being dismissive of January 6th.
 

Gameface

Stand With Ukraine
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
This has to be grounds for a massive defamation law suit, doesn't it?



So my question is, has she filed a lawsuit against Trump, Rudy Giuliani and the Trump campaign?

If she hasn't then what the ****? If she did nothing Trump and Rudy claim she did and it caused her quantifiable damage and the claims were known or should have been known by Trump and Rudy to be false and the claims were believed by others then she has a slam dun mega-millions defamation case against Trump, his campaign and Rudy.

I'm starting to not know what the **** to believe. If she is telling the truth then she needs to be suing the **** out of Trump. Not just to get rich, but to put this on record and to put Trump on notice that he can't just throw this kind of **** around.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
For me what landed him on my ignore list was a build up that culminated in his cavalier attitude in regards to jan 6th. His stance was/is basically who care what the protesters did as long as the final result was biden sworn into office? Like what if the protesters killed 100 people but biden was still sworn into office? Would the fact that 100 people were killed not matter at all?
That complete dismissal of what happened on january 6th was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
You’d think that this would cause some introspection on his part. But it doesn’t. Sad
 

Gameface

Stand With Ukraine
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
You’d think that this would cause some introspection on his part. But it doesn’t. Sad
What is causing me introspection is that Donald Trump has never been charged with an actual ****ing crime. Matt Gaetz is supposedly a child sex offender yet he is still serving in congress and is not criminally charged as far as I can tell.

I'm ****ing done with the ********.

If there are no charges to be made against Gaetz and none to be made against Trump then I'm a damn fool and I'm out. **** all this noise.

Show me the charges or shut the **** up.

I'm at a crossroads right now. I don't know why charges aren't happening. I'm about to go "both sides" on this **** and if that's where I'm at, the biggest liars aren't the Republicans.

So show me the criminal charges against Gaetz. Show me the charges against Trump or get the **** out!

I want criminal charges for criminal offenses or I'm going to say it was all ******** the entire time.

I'm seriously conflicted right now.

I have no loyalty.

**** isn't sitting right with me.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
What is causing me introspection is that Donald Trump has never been charged with an actual ****ing crime. Matt Gaetz is supposedly a child sex offender yet he is still serving in congress and is not criminally charged as far as I can tell.

I'm ****ing done with the ********.

If there are no charges to be made against Gaetz and none to be made against Trump then I'm a damn fool and I'm out. **** all this noise.

Show me the charges or shut the **** up.

I'm at a crossroads right now. I don't know why charges aren't happening. I'm about to go "both sides" on this **** and if that's where I'm at, the biggest liars aren't the Republicans.

So show me the criminal charges against Gaetz. Show me the charges against Trump or get the **** out!

I want criminal charges for criminal offenses or I'm going to say it was all ******** the entire time.

I'm seriously conflicted right now.

I have no loyalty.

**** isn't sitting right with me.
I have no clue what the DOJ is doing. The hearings have been dominated by Republicans testifying that they knew what **** that Eastman, Guiliani, and Trump were peddling was illegal. Soooooo why are they still free?

I don’t know what the status of the Gaetz thing is. That one seemed a little more out there. But the Trump stuff seems pretty damn obvious. You shouldn’t be able to call up state officials and ask them to throw out election results because you lost without consequence.

Not only is this hurting Democrats (I bet Biden’s approval would go up 10 pts overnight if we finally saw Trump and the gang face legal consequences) but it’s hurting our country. We need the rule of law. If there aren’t consequences for their attempted coup then it’s bound to happen again.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
I know you think Trump is a special case, but he’s just a guy you’ll never meet and who has next to no impact on your life outside of being the subject of an awful lot of media you take in. It would be a shame to lose friends and family over but I know a lot of Americans disagree with me.
Simply not true. Trump, and the Trump era so far, has had a tremendous impact on my life. My inner life, my peace of mind, my psychic state, these are all quite important to me. I told you already, I recognized who Trump was, and what he surely represented, the very day he descended the escalator in Trump Tower, in 2015, and announced. If someone had told me, back in 72, when I was defending my thesis, which involved examining the intellectual roots of 20th century fascistic movements in Europe, that that education would be as illuminating as it has been, some 50 years later, well, I just could never have foreseen that. Instead, I have never been more grateful for having that very education. This focus on my part started that very day in 2015. I never expected any of this, but the effect of Trump has been overwhelming on my inner life. I truly wish none of this horror show was transpiring in, and to, my country, but it is, and I am constantly filtering events through my background, my education, etc. It’s actually more that, than the media you think I’m addicted to….

Look at it this way: I like to tell my friends “never sleepwalk through that portion of history that is your’s to live”. So many people do. I don’t. The past informs the present. I understand the present moment, to the degree I believe I do, because what I understand regarding the past casts a bright spotlight on the present. And while I would not trade my education for anything, esp. now, I also sometimes think of how blissful it must be to be ignorant of all this.

Look, you can interpret and have an opinion on what I am trying to say in this comment that dismisses me as dangerously obsessed, deluded, divorced from reality, any opinion you want, but it’s silly to tell me Trump has had no impact on my life. My inner life is essential. And there are people suffering depression over Trump and what he has done to this country. I absolutely feel myself in that very position at times, and know others who experience that as well. That qualifies as “an effect”, and it would be silly to suggest it does not. His greatest crime, the one that stands the chance to cause the greatest damage to our body politic, is the Big Lie. Creating a situation, where henceforth a significant percentage of the electorate will regard our elections as simply not trustworthy, lacking integrity, poisoned with cheating, is one of the very worse things a president can possibly do to his fellow citizens. And his nation. Solid proof that Donald Trump does not even care one iota about the nation that elected him president. The United States means absolutely nothing to Donald J. Trump. That’s effectual in my world….

So, trying to be clear here. I understand it’s nobody’s business, and of no internet to anyone but myself, so I am sorry for carrying on in a personal vein, as I likely overdo that as is, but telling me Trump has no effect on my life is silly. You remind me of my friend a bit. He too thinks small. Thinks it’s all about Democrats vs. Republicans. No it isn’t. It’s about democracy vs. autocracy.
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Simply not true. Trump, and the Trump era so far, has had a tremendous impact on my life. My inner life, my peace of mind, my psychic state, these are all quite important to me. I told you already, I recognized who Trump was, and what he surely represented, the very day he descended the escalator in Trump Tower, in 2015, and announced. If someone had told me, back in 72, when I was defending my thesis, which involved examining the intellectual roots of 20th century fascistic movements in Europe, that that education would be as illuminating as it has been, some 50 years later, well, I just could never have foreseen that. Instead, I have never been more grateful for having that very education. This focus on my part started that very day in 2015. I never expected any of this, but the effect of Trump has been overwhelming on my inner life. I truly wish none of this horror show was transpiring in, and to, my country, but it is, and I am constantly filtering events through my background, my education, etc. It’s actually more that, than the media you think I’m addicted to….

Look at it this way: I like to tell my friends “never sleepwalk through that portion of history that is your’s to live”. So many people do. I don’t. The past informs the present. I understand the present moment, to the degree I believe I do, because what I understand regarding the past casts a bright spotlight on the present. And while I would not trade my education for anything, esp. now, I also sometimes think of how blissful it must be to be ignorant of all this.

Look, you can interpret and have an opinion on what I am trying to say in this comment that dismisses me as dangerously obsessed, deluded, divorced from reality, any opinion you want, but it’s silly to tell me Trump has had no impact on my life. My inner life is essential. And there are people suffering depression over Trump and what he has done to this country. I absolutely feel myself in that very position at times, and know others who experience that as well. That qualifies as “an effect”, and it would be silly to suggest it does not. His greatest crime, the one that stands the chance to cause the greatest damage to our body politic, is the Big Lie. Creating a situation, where henceforth a significant percentage of the electorate will regard our elections as simply not trustworthy, lacking integrity, poisoned with cheating, is one of the very worse things a president can possibly do to his fellow citizens. And his nation. Solid proof that Donald Trump does not even care one iota about the nation that elected him president. The United States means absolutely nothing to Donald J. Trump. That’s effectual in my world….

So, trying to be clear here. I understand it’s nobody’s business, and of no internet to anyone but myself, so I am sorry for carrying on in a personal vein, as I likely overdue that as is, but telling me Trump has no effect on my life is silly. You remind me of my friend a bit. He too thinks small. Thinks it’s all about Democrats vs. Republicans. No it isn’t. It’s about democracy vs. autocracy.
Also, something shouldn’t have to directly effect you for you to have an opinion of it. See: kids in cages to discourage immigration, blackmailing Zelensky, proud boys standby, etc. One of the primary lessons learned from the 21st century is to not wait until things directly effect you. By then, it might be too late. There was even a poem written that warned against those who only cared about things when it directly effected them, “First they came for…”

So those who advocate for only caring about things that directly effect them are wrong. They’re blind to history and failing their responsibilities of living in a democracy and caring for things beyond their own small bubble. They’re irresponsible citizens. They lack integrity and character. A liberal democracy cannot function if citizens only care about their own bubble. Like it’s the most basic tenet of our form of government. Citizens must think beyond their own bubble or else our government just won’t work. That’s one of the main reasons why liberal democracy in Afghanistan can’t survive. People see themselves belonging More to their family or local tribe than belonging to a larger country known as Afghanistan.

TBH, those telling others to not care for others probably know they’re wrong but don’t want to admit it because it would mean coming to admit that Trump was a horrible leader. It would mean admitting that they’d been wrong. It would admit that their tribe was wrong and the tribe they hate was right. It would mean coming to grips that their media has lied to them and pastor or bishop has exploited them.

It means they’d actually have to invest in public parks, roads, education, and health care. It means they’d wear a mask out of consideration for others, treating fellow citizens at the store with patience, and learning history no matter how uncomfortable it might make them feel. It means they’d have to listen to others, empathize, and compromise. It means they’d have to think about something other than themselves. Unfortunately, many just cannot do this. This is no more true than those who still support their Orange god king. They don’t want to deal with being wrong, compromise, listening to others, maturity, or dealing with being wrong in a healthy manner. Overwhelmingly they no longer see politics as a way to move the country forward; but as a way to punish those they hate and cover up the guilt they so strongly feel but don’t want to deal with.

A democracy cannot thrive when a large enough segment of the population is like this.
 
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Al-O-Meter

Well-Known Member
telling me Trump has no effect on my life is silly.
Your inner life, your peace of mind, and your psychic state are all things you do to yourself. I strongly doubt Trump showed up to your door to drag you off to prison camp where you are able to post on JF how disruptive it has been. The man in the mirror is the one guilty of harshing your calm.

It’s about democracy vs. autocracy.
I've lived in an autocracy with a king, and secret police, and everything down to what photographs you were taking being subject to oversight. It is the same one that when a reporter criticized the government, they lured him back to an embassy in Turkey where the cut him apart with a bone saw. The movies I watched were all edited by government censors and every piece of mail going in or out of the country was read by police. I don't mean to downplay the paper you wrote in college about the intellectual roots of fascist movements as you seem quite proud of it but I do chuckle at your implication of my ignorance being the basis for why I don't think America in 2016 through 2020 is what autocracy looks like although April 2020 was pretty close.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
The man in the mirror is the one guilty of harshing your calm.
That’s no more than your opinion, likely just born of the fact that you completely disagree with my take on all that’s happened since 2016. Since you do not believe or agree with any of it, you attribute it to my imagination. That doesn’t work. I have reasons for believing what I believe, and experience what I experience. I’m not hermetically sealed, impervious to any influences beyond my own skin. I know what I’m talking about. It has a basis in reality. Beyond my imagination. Just not your reality.
don't mean to downplay the paper you wrote in college about the intellectual roots of fascist movements as you seem quite proud of it
Had nothing to do with pride. Just explaining how Trump’s announcement affected me at the time. It was the reason I recognized he was a populist demagogue from day one. Just mentioning where the foundations lay in forming my opinion of Trumpism. Has nothing to do with pride, I just thought it would help explain WHY I was raising red flags about the guy, and from the start. Being grateful that I had that specific education is not overweening pride, if that’s what you’re suggesting. I’m simply grateful it helped me avoid “sleepwalking through history”. And surprised, since there have been times in my life where that education seemed wasted for a time. I’m just glad it came in handy, long after the fact. That’s all.

And I did not say America from 2016 through 2020 is what autocracy looks like. I said no such thing.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
I've lived in an autocracy with a king, and secret police, and everything down to what photographs you were taking being subject to oversight. It is the same one that when a reporter criticized the government, they lured him back to an embassy in Turkey where the cut him apart with a bone saw. The movies I watched were all edited by government censors and every piece of mail going in or out of the country was read by police. I don't mean to downplay the paper you wrote in college about the intellectual roots of fascist movements as you seem quite proud of it but I do chuckle at your implication of my ignorance being the basis for why I don't think America in 2016 through 2020 is what autocracy looks like although April 2020 was pretty close.
This guy lived under authoritarian regimes too. He has a different opinion than you. How about that. Different opinions. What will the world come up with next…

“I hadn’t planned on writing about the January 6 investigation today. But that was before I watched the testimony of Rusty Bowers, Brad Raffensperger, Gabriel Sterling, Shaye Moss, and Ruby Freeman.

Their stories of being targeted with threats, harassment, and vile accusationsare a reminder of how much Trump and his team of malignant election fabulists have taken from the civic life of the United States. I’ve spent most of my career studying authoritarian governments, and I’ve spent a lot of time in some repressive places, from Greece under a military junta as a boy to the Soviet Union as an adult. I always felt, on returning to the United States, that I had returned to a fortress of democratic stability and civic cooperation.

I no longer feel that way.”

 


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