The Caravan

[JazzyFresh]

That's fine, I mean we've provided plenty of evidence that shows these Soros caravan theories are rooted in antisemitism but you are free to draw your own conclusions. I also don't think it's likely that DasJazz meant to be antisemitic when he brought it up, but as I brought up earlier that's why it's important to learn the history behind those attacks. It's not productive to call him or you a Nazi, which is why I don't do that.

But you could stand to learn a little about the history of pre ww2 Germany and the propaganda that was targeted towards the Jews, and how these conspiracy theories echo that same rhetoric.

Nazi Germany is not coming to America. If it does then thank God I have a means to protect myself unlike some of the Jews. Rember gun control was also part of preWW2 Germany. I could use your same argument against gun control.

 

[Zombie]

Nazi Germany is not coming to America. If it does then thank God I have a means to protect myself unlike some of the Jews. Rember gun control was also part of preWW2 Germany. I could use your same argument against gun control.

My argument is not in any way that Nazi Germany is coming to America.

 

[JazzyFresh]

My argument is not in any way that Nazi Germany is coming to America.

Ok but when you bring up how propagandas were similar you can see how I could make that assumption? Which is exactly like the assumption you guys made towards said poster earlier. Assumptions are dangerous and if we want to talk propaganda, wrongfully labeling people to make them look like something they are not was a Nazi propaganda tool as well. But I'm not going call anybody a Nazi over that. It's downright a terrible, uneducated, and dangerous thing to do.

 

[fishonjazz]

To me the theory was that he used his money to help these people flood our boarders as an Anti-Trump agenda

Wouldn't that help trumps agenda?
Trump wants a wall. He wants to attack immigration.
If no one was trying to come into our country through Mexico then he wouldn't need a wall. There would be no bogeyman to fear.

The caravan gives him and his supporters a scary bogeyman to go after. Helps make people see how dire the situation is at the border and that something needs to be done to stop it.

The caravan is a tool for Trump to use.

 

[Zombie]

Ok but when you bring up how propagandas were similar you can see how I could make that assumption? Which is exactly like the assumption you guys made towards said poster earlier. Assumptions are dangerous and if we want to talk propaganda, wrongfully labeling people to make them look like something they are not was a Nazi propaganda tool as well. But I'm not going call anybody a Nazi over that. It's downright a terrible, uneducated, and dangerous thing to do.

No, if you read my posts is clear that the reason the propaganda is similar is because it's being created and spread by white supremacists. Some of whom deserve to be called Nazis (and in fact proudly take that moniker up themselves), others who are spreading it out of ignorance.

 

[The Thriller]

I honestly don't know, that's an honest answer. I don't think he meant it that way in the least. I've heard that theory many times and never thought of Soros funding the caravan(I don't know or care if he did) as a Jewish thing. To me the theory was that he used his money to help these people flood our boarders as an Anti-Trump agenda.

You can call me illiterate and I can call you childish but calling someone something as grotesque as a Nazi crossed a line of extreme hate. Not only that it's completely false and downright stupid

What’s a “boarders?”

Is it a word that only illiterate and stupid people would know?

 

[Zombie]

Wouldn't that help trumps agenda?
Trump wants a wall. He wants to attack immigration.
If no one was trying to come into our country through Mexico then he wouldn't need a wall. There would be no bogeyman to fear.

The caravan gives him and his supporters a scary bogeyman to go after. Helps make people see how dire the situation is at the border and that something needs to be done to stop it.

The caravan is a tool for Trump to use.

Let's be clear, the Caravan is/was a group of people fleeing violence and poverty. They weren't created nor are being funded by any political group in the US.

Trump has brought attention to it to further his own hard-line immigration policies, and mischaracterized it as a group of criminals, while others on the far right have tried to concoct a variety of conspiracies that its part of a plot to undermine and overwhelm the United States. This was one of the theories that drove a man to attack a synagogue, and a different man to attempt to mail bombs to left wing politicians including George Soros himself.

 

[jazzrule]

I'm seriously in awe. I will no longer be talking politics here. You guys have crossed a line.

That is what they want is for us to quit. Look at what they say and the names they call us, and I recently got a warning for getting to personal. The staff member warned me to be "very careful or else I might lose my jazzfanz membership." I am ashamed that this site is supposedly owned by Mormons.

 

[Red]

I believe in law and order, which you, Red and others seem to disrespect.

Ah, yeah, the old "law and order" trope, that Nixon made his calling card, and that power mongers have long used to attempt to deligitimize protest....

There is a proud tradition of civil disobedience in the United States, and it is a tradition that stretches back centuries before our nation even existed:

https://historyplex.com/historical-recent-examples-of-civil-disobedience

What the protestors at the Wyatt Detention Center in Rhode Island were practicing was an integrity-based civil disobedience:

Integrity-based: It is the disobedience when someone or a group of people feel that a certain law, policy, or decision taken by the government is immoral.

And it continues in the Trump era:

https://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/civil-disobedience-in-the-trump-era/

What we are seeing today in the United States, where civil disobedience is concerned, is mild in comparison to what we saw in the Vietnam era. The Vietnam War-generated anti war civil disobedience movement was also integrity-based. I was a naive "America is always on the side of the good guys" youth in that era, and what we as a nation were engaged in at that time in our nation's history radicalized me. It represented my own introduction to the value of, and the power of, civil disobedience. Being part of such a movement is something I will always remember with pride.

Notice how the Jewish activist organization Never Again Action describes the rationale behind their own integrity-based civil disobedience. Read between their lines as well. I was not familiar with their group before the Wyatt incident, but these people get it:

"Never Again Action is a mass mobilization of Jews who are organizing to shut down ICE and hold the political establishment accountable for enabling both the deportation machine that has separated immigrant families across the U.S. for decades and the current crisis at the border.We come together as a group of differently affiliated Jewish organizers, recognizing that we have seen this groundwork laid before. We understand it to be our community’s obligation to stand up when we see history repeat itself and to declare that Never Again means Never Again for anybody".

 

[Red]

Claiming that immigrants are being funded by outside groups (insinuated to be Jewish groups) is anti-semitism/white supremacy 101.

It was the major motivation behind the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting:

Shades of, no, more then mere shades of, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

 

[silesian]

Nazi Germany is not coming to America. If it does then thank God I have a means to protect myself unlike some of the Jews. Rember gun control was also part of preWW2 Germany. I could use your same argument against gun control.

I’m in the “trump is not a Nazi” camp, as I’ve explained elsewhere.

I will point out, however, that Germans did not believe what was coming, was coming.

And the idea that an individual having a gun would impact their ability to defend themselves against a Nazi state and their massive modern military is ridiculous. They would demand you turn in your guns and then conduct raids and execute anyone who did not comply.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m in the “trump is not a Nazi” camp, as I’ve explained elsewhere.

I will point out, however, that Germans did not believe what was coming, was coming.

And the idea that an individual having a gun would impact their ability to defend themselves against a Nazi state and their massive modern military is ridiculous. They would demand you turn in your guns and then conduct raids and execute anyone who did not comply.

But if they did conduct these raids and executions many many many of the military doing the raids would also be executed by the people they were raiding.

 

[fishonjazz]

That is what they want is for us to quit. Look at what they say and the names they call us, and I recently got a warning for getting to personal. The staff member warned me to be "very careful or else I might lose my jazzfanz membership." I am ashamed that this site is supposedly owned by Mormons.

Its owned by one person. Not "mormons"

 

[fishonjazz]

Let's be clear, the Caravan is/was a group of people fleeing violence and poverty. They weren't created nor are being funded by any political group in the US.

Trump has brought attention to it to further his own hard-line immigration policies, and mischaracterized it as a group of criminals, while others on the far right have tried to concoct a variety of conspiracies that its part of a plot to undermine and overwhelm the United States. This was one of the theories that drove a man to attack a synagogue, and a different man to attempt to mail bombs to left wing politicians including George Soros himself.

I agree that the caravan is just people fleeing ****** situations in their country. I was just pointing out that the caravan actually helps trumps agenda much much more than it hurts it.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Wouldn't that help trumps agenda?
Trump wants a wall. He wants to attack immigration.
If no one was trying to come into our country through Mexico then he wouldn't need a wall. There would be no bogeyman to fear.

The caravan gives him and his supporters a scary bogeyman to go after. Helps make people see how dire the situation is at the border and that something needs to be done to stop it.

The caravan is a tool for Trump to use.

I can't entirely disagree with this but I'm focused squarely on the wrongness of calling other posters Nazis. You agreed the other day that it is wrong and it is. Two posters here have called me myself a Nazi, and those same posters have called other posters here Nazis. I have never said a racist thing in my life. Honest to God.

That is not ok. That is nothing more than hateful diatribe and no better than what some here say Trump is doing. It's extremely divisive, it's wrong, it's hateful, and by definition bigoted. I would say the same if other posters called you a Nazi, or some other extremely derogatory term. You sure as hell wouldn't appreciate me calling you it, would you? Because it's a hateful lie.

 

[The Thriller]

again, all of this anger and confusion could be avoided if a handful of posters who react negatively when labeled racist or anti-Semitic would stop posting anti-Semitic conspiracies on this website.

It’s really not that hard.

 

[JazzyFresh]

again, all of this anger and confusion could be avoided if a handful of posters who react negatively when labeled racist or anti-Semitic would stop posting anti-Semitic conspiracies on this website.

It’s really not that hard.

I didn't post anything of the sort yet you were on board with him calling me a Nazi. Where have I posted a single anti-Semitic view? I'll wait why I read my book.

 

[The Thriller]

I didn't post anything of the sort yet you were on board with him calling me a Nazi. I call this post one of those fairy tales where you make stuff up to excuse such vileness.

I wasn’t talking to you. I would’ve quoted you if I had wanted any additional interaction with you.

So stop quoting me or trying to engage in discussion with me. It’s over.

 

[The Thriller]

Is this really the country we want to be?

 

[JazzyFresh]

I wasn’t talking to you. I would’ve quoted you if I had wanted any additional interaction with you.

So stop quoting me or trying to engage in discussion with me. It’s over.

Sure, a "handful of posters". I call bs. You even liked when he called me a Nazi at least twice.

But ok. Same.