What's new
By:
Filters

The Conley Conundrum

Tom349 said:
We literally were getting this Conley before he started having problems with his hamstrings. Over a 10 game stretch he averaged 17.7 points, 4.4 assists, with a .548 true shooting percentage. He then had a couple of quiet games where he distributed more and Bogdanovic took over the scoring load ( 27 points followed by b2b 30+ points nights), Conley then had 20 against Toronto then hurt his hamstring against Philly. Over this same stretch of play he had a 4:1 turnover ratio which funnily enough was only bettered by Rubio among starting PG's.

You can compare Conley and Rubio stats and you see that they're quiet similar, key differences being assist numbers which can largely be accounted for based on the difference in system and the other difference being three point percentage. Rubio shot very well in November (.385) but has shot (.273) for December which is the Rubio everyone knows, especially his opponents. You can then compare his shooting percentage to Conley who is shooting 40% from 3 since the 5th game of the season which is the Conley opponents know and know not to leave open. Come playoffs that is going to make a big difference.
Click to expand...

People are making good points about the contributions of Conley vis-a-vis his inflated salary. They don't support his salary. Another point is that there is too much focus on his stats -- HIS STATS. What about the stats of the team, the others playing with him? This, to me, is where his greatest failing has been. As with Rubio, the Jazz are better when Donovan runs the point. When it comes down to crunch time, you want the ball in Donovan's hands, not Rubio, not Conley, and that is the real problem with Conley who is a ball dominant PG. Someone like Brogdan would've been ideal. In fact, if we had him rather than Conley, we would be true contenders even with our weakness at PF.
 
We should put him on permanent injured reserve, see if we can trade him to unload his salary, keep the guys we got playing in the starting lineup and try to bring back Rubio and Davis!
 
carolinajazz said:
We should put him on permanent injured reserve, see if we can trade him to unload his salary, keep the guys we got playing in the starting lineup and try to bring back Rubio and Davis!
Click to expand...

Seems like he has been out for an awfully long time for hamstring tightness. Wondering if the Jazz are trying to trade him.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The last two years the team has performed better with Mitchell next to another strong starting caliber PG.
Click to expand...
Apparently not better enough or else why did we decide not to bring back that "strong starting caliber PG"? And at least Rubio gave us positive on one end of the floor, whereas Conley has been a solid negative on both, meaning we are not better with him on the floor.
 
latin jazz said:
Mmm, nope, that's not what I'm saying so please stop paraphrasing.

My point is that Ingles will be pretty easy to shut down (by Hou or other playoff team) and therefore we need one more playmaker besides DM. And we better hope Conley plays better (and it's quite rational to think so).

And I disagree with some of your points: I) I think he can be effective off the ball (he is shooting 40% on catch and shoot 3 this season but his floater is off, previous seasons also show he can be pretty effective); ii) we are way better with him if he improves. He brings intangibles/playmaking/shotmaking which will be useful during the playoffs. Also, very small sample size to make hard conclusions. As you may be aware, this FO prefers to err on the side of caution and get as much data as possible to make a move, so a Conley trade is unlikely (plus he is their guy).
Click to expand...
As if a midget PG who needs the ball in his hand will not be easy to stop comes playoffs? Well historic stats have also shown otherwise.

And funny how you guys keep mentioning the term "small sample size" while Conley shooting 40% on catch and shoot being the very definition of it. The guy barely hits 1 shot a game on catch n shoot and he is supposed to be "effective" as an offball threat? I will take that if Conley offers other offball skills on the table. But is he good at setting screens? Is he good at cuts? Is he good at rebounding/boxing out? Well, I guess there are still not enough sample to make conclusions because you know, the guys never played a secondary ball handling option/offball role in his career? So funny that you mention FO being cautious yet their logic behind bringing in a midget ball dominant PG to serve as a secondary/offball role was based on limited data/sample size.
 
silesian said:
Conley will be fine.

We need Conley.

Y’all are overreacting to a win streak without Conley against lottery teams.

Remember y’all saying Jingles was done? Get ready for eating crow, part 2.

Conley will be fine.
Click to expand...

I hope so. I was ecstatic about the trade myself -- sure Conley is a good player but his fit is questionable (unlike Clarkson, whom no one at this stage would say is a better player) and now I am dubious and the way the Jazz have been playing most recently has increased my doubts.
 
silesian said:
Conley will be fine.

We need Conley.

Y’all are overreacting to a win streak without Conley against lottery teams.

Remember y’all saying Jingles was done? Get ready for eating crow, part 2.

Conley will be fine.
Click to expand...
1, we beat a very good team in Clips without Conley. And regardless of the opponents, Conley has been a negative on both ends of the floor with a -0.7 OBPM and -1.0 DBPM, meaning we lose points while he is on the floor.

2, Ingles played better after he is inserted back to the starting lineup, which won't happen if Conley didn't get hurt.
 
silesian said:
Conley will be fine.

We need Conley.

Y’all are overreacting to a win streak without Conley against lottery teams.

Conley will be fine.
Click to expand...

With Conley in our lineup we'd be losing to those lottery teams! Keep him on sick bay, take the lost and unload him as soon as possible.
 
jom2003 said:
1, we beat a very good team in Clips without Conley. And regardless of the opponents, Conley has been a negative on both ends of the floor with a -0.7 OBPM and -1.0 DBPM, meaning we lose points while he is on the floor.

2, Ingles played better after he is inserted back to the starting lineup, which won't happen if Conley didn't get hurt.
Click to expand...

1. You are confusing BPM with simple plus minus. BPM is a weak stat, it was designed to use old historical stats, even basketball reference acknowledges this.

2. You don’t know what adjustments would have been made or their outcomes.
 
silesian said:
yeah Donovan’s usage drops from 31% to 30%. You are not going to argue that is statistically significant, are you? It is less than one shot per game. Don’s usage is up year over year including play with Conley.

I bet you noticed that the net rating with don and mike together is 5.3 higher than without don without mike.
Click to expand...
Stats don't factor in intangibles, and as we can see, the Jazz and Donovan are playing better without Mike.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
Stats don't factor in intangibles, and as we can see, the Jazz and Donovan are playing better without Mike.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of variables in these equations that larger sample sizes will should correct. Of course, though, when Mike comes back we’ll have a harder schedule.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top