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The Honesty of Transgender Identity

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Archie Moses said:
Because it's not fair and I'm a sports fan. Look at all the examples I gave you. The track stars shattered records. The mma fighter broke orbital bones. The weight lifter started transitioning at age 37. The long driver golfer was a cop for 20 years and great guy golfer, but nothing close to being pro - she then transitioned and viola - she became a golf pro and long drive winner. How many people can become world champs later on in life?

Bill Burr has a pretty funny bit on this you can see on YouTube.
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Sure, on contact sports I see the issue. Idgaf about golf or weight lifting though.
 
Siro said:
I don't know about all of that. The difference in strength between men and women is huge. It's a pretty insurmountable advantage, and it'd be extremely unfair to the other competitors.
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But it just doesn't happen, though. There are no prominent cases. Why fight so hard to prevent a possibility that is so remote?

It's like the carbon blades that girlfriend-murdering Pistorius had on his legs. In theory, sophisticated blades made out of space age materials would be superior to human legs. If in no other area, but in the fact that you can't tear a blade like you can tear your Achilles. But they still let Pistorius compete against those with real legs because Pistorius wasn't going to be Usain Bolt even if he was born with legs, and because the dude who finished 10th in the Olympics is probably not going to cut off his legs in order to try and gain an advantage.
 
JimLes said:
But it just doesn't happen, though. There are no prominent cases. Why fight so hard to prevent a possibility that is so remote?

It's like the carbon blades that girlfriend-murdering Pistorius had on his legs. In theory, sophisticated blades made out of space age materials would be superior to human legs. If in no other area, but in the fact that you can't tear a blade like you can tear your Achilles. But they still let Pistorius compete against those with real legs because Pistorius wasn't going to be Usain Bolt even if he was born with legs, and because the dude who finished 10th in the Olympics is probably not going to cut off his legs in order to try and gain an advantage.
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Why such faith in people? Makes no sense. If simply identifying as a woman becomes the criterion for competing in woman's sports, then of course many will abuse it. There's nothing remote about that possibility. It's pretty much a certainty.

Of course, the conversation is moot. That would never happen on any serious competitive level, since it's absurd and irrational.
 
Archie Moses said:
Look at all the examples I gave you. The track stars shattered records. The mma fighter broke orbital bones. The weight lifter started transitioning at age 37. The long driver golfer was a cop for 20 years and great guy golfer, but nothing close to being pro - she then transitioned and viola - she became a golf pro and long drive winner.
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I looked at the examples. Were world records shattered? Were UFC belts won? Were there Olympic medals in weightlifting won? Are there any transgender women in the LPGA right now?

You've given examples to conclude that there may be a handful of transgender women competing at low levels out of millions of women participating in sports around the world.

And once again, even though you keep refusing to answer, I ask what hugely negative effect you think this will lead to. Do you think half of WNBA will be transgender by 2050?
 
Siro said:
Why such faith in people? Makes no sense. If simply identifying as a woman becomes the criterion for competing in woman's sports, then of course many will abuse it. There's nothing remote about that possibility. It's pretty much a certainty.
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But I'm not arguing people should be allowed to compete based on identification. I'm saying that if someone has medically transitioned, they should be allowed to compete. I'm not saying that simply saying you wanna compete against women and putting some eyeshadow on should make you eligible to compete as a woman. I'm not arguing for this.

JuwannaMan.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/humormillmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/JuwannaMan.jpg
 
JimLes said:
But I'm not arguing people should be allowed to compete based on identification. I'm saying that if someone has medically transitioned, they should be allowed to compete. I'm not saying that simply saying you wanna compete against women and putting some eyeshadow on should make you eligible to compete as a woman. I'm not arguing for this.

JuwannaMan.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/humormillmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/JuwannaMan.jpg
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I guess I'll have to think about that. But I understand what you're saying. It's rare and nobody is doing it to compete in sports.
 
Siro said:
I guess I'll have to think about that. But I understand what you're saying. It's rare and nobody is doing it to compete in sports.
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It's not that I have faith in people in general, so much as I have faith that most men will not chop off their dicks and balls and take hormones just to win a local weightlifting competition.

Obviously, if this were to somehow become an issue despite this, then yes, I'd be willing to make rules stricter.

Kinda like eligibility rules in soccer. You used to be able to play for any national team as long as you legally held their passport. Then Togo and Qatar decided to start offering passports to second-rate Brazilians and the rules were changed. Now you need a connection to the country at birth(parents, grandparents) or 5 years of residence.
 
While Caster Semanya isn't transgender in the case you're trying make, it's similar and had reactions that would mirror the same ones transgender women would have. She BLEW away the competition at the Olympics.
 
JimLes said:
It's not that I have faith in people in general, so much as I have faith that most men will not chop off their dicks and balls and take hormones just to win a local weightlifting competition.
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This is pretty much exactly what Laurel Hubbard did. She lived as a man for 35 years. Decided to transition and did. Then started competing in weight lifting competitions and winning.

It did not sit well with many and you're acting all shocked.

I gave you examples and you're still blind to them. Wtf.
 
I recently found out that I am cis-gendered. I had no clue - but once it was explained to me, I had to agree.
 
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