What's new
By:

The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

jom2003 said:
Yeah he's a 5 on defense but we are talking about offensive skillset though.
Click to expand...
Incorrect.
We are talking about if jokic would be this good offensively if he played against true 5's guarding him.
That means Jokic defenders is what we are talking about in this Jokic centric discussion. What embiid does on offense doesn't stop Jokic when he is on offense.
If anything jokic having to run more to guard bigs that can play away from the rim like he does in today's NBA would possibly hurt his offense due to him expending more energy on defense.
 
fishonjazz said:
Incorrect.
We are talking about if jokic would be this good offensively if he played against true 5's guarding him.
That means Jokic defenders is what we are talking about in this Jokic centric discussion. What embiid does on offense doesn't stop Jokic when he is on offense.
If anything jokic having to run more to guard bigs that can play away from the rim like he does in today's NBA would possibly hurt his offense due to him expending more energy on defense.
Click to expand...
That's what Aaron Gordon is for though. They had a guy who could switch out so they can just let Joker stand around and play drop coverage to save energy knowing Gordon could run that extra distance for him, which was the exact thing we lacked when we had Rudy. As soon as Rudy is drawn out of the paint, it's basically game over for us cuz all we had was a 6'4 Royce and Bogey.
 
jom2003 said:
Yeah he's a 5 on defense but we are talking about offensive skillset though. And I do believe sixers had the right idea when they signed Horford but they pivoted way too fast and didn't really give enough time for the twin tower to mesh. It was like us getting rid of Mike after his first season. And its not like Horford was bad for them either. Not having an “Aaron Gordon” burnt Embiid and now his leges are totally cooked.
Click to expand...
It isn’t that I don’t like people who are wrong. It’s that I don’t like people who are defensive instead of curious, and so confident in their wrongness they’re a joke to everyone but themselves and that, ultimately, is the thing they’re most confidently wrong about.
 
jom2003 said:
That's what Aaron Gordon is for though. They had a guy who could switch out so they can just let Joker stand around and play drop coverage to save energy knowing Gordon could run that extra distance for him, which was the exact thing we lacked when we had Rudy. As soon as Rudy is drawn out of the paint, it's basically game over for us cuz all we had was a 6'4 Royce and Bogey.
Click to expand...
It's clear that you lack objectivity and love to move them goal posts

We are done here. Ignore list it is.
 
jom2003 said:
Stats need to be put into context... Even that video acknowledged it. Joker benefited from living in a guard dominated era where big men are mostly utility players or even played like guards... There's not a big men who could challenge him both offensively or defensively. His stats got glorified cuz he's like a man amongst boys inside.
Click to expand...
Lmao at "blaming the era". That works for Wilt who played against part time basketball players who sold shoes for their day time job, but thats such a crappy argument otherwise. You play in the era you play in.

Like take prime Shaq and put him in 2025 and he would probably be considered a defensive liability because he cant switch, cant guard the perimeter, cant guard anything but big (non stretch) 5s. So he benefited from an era where 5-out ball wasnt even invented, and most bigs had no ball skilll nor could they shoot.

Sure he could probably shut down Zion and slow down Giannis, but most other stars of 2025 would absolutely FEAST on Shaq being on the court. Steph would probably chase him off the court.
 
HermanG said:
Lmao at "blaming the era". That works for Wilt who played against part time basketball players who sold shoes for their day time job, but thats such a crappy argument otherwise. You play in the era you play in.

Like take prime Shaq and put him in 2025 and he would probably be considered a defensive liability because he cant switch, cant guard the perimeter, cant guard anything but big (non stretch) 5s. So he benefited from an era where 5-out ball wasnt even invented, and most bigs had no ball skilll nor could they shoot.

Sure he could probably shut down Zion and slow down Giannis, but most other stars of 2025 would absolutely FEAST on Shaq being on the court. Steph would probably chase him off the court.
Click to expand...
We actually got to see Shaq in a modern offense in the Suns, and he was quite good even past his prime, but defensively he was really bad, and that was before every other team was also playing that modern style. He would have had his late career post-prime/but still very good cut way short in the modern game if he didnt manage his weight.
 
HermanG said:
Lmao at "blaming the era". That works for Wilt who played against part time basketball players who sold shoes for their day time job, but thats such a crappy argument otherwise. You play in the era you play in.

Like take prime Shaq and put him in 2025 and he would probably be considered a defensive liability because he cant switch, cant guard the perimeter, cant guard anything but big (non stretch) 5s. So he benefited from an era where 5-out ball wasnt even invented, and most bigs had no ball skilll nor could they shoot.

Sure he could probably shut down Zion and slow down Giannis, but most other stars of 2025 would absolutely FEAST on Shaq being on the court. Steph would probably chase him off the court.
Click to expand...
Era does matter though especially when it comes to offense. It used to be a high scoring affair when teams score above 120 in a game. Now we have teams averaging 120pts per game. Teams were just more physical and more defense orientated in the previous eras and there are multiple essays/video analysis on the NBA rule changes that simply encouraged more offense. You said Steph would chase Shaq off the court. First let's pretend an absolute havoc that is Shaquille O'neal wouldn't be able to chase everyone else off the court with his dominance in the paint, who is to say Steph would still be Steph if let's say, handcheck wasn't removed to massively buff the perimeter players?

The video made the argument that Joker is the offense GOAT cuz he's got the highest OBPM, the same stats that rated Trae Young ahead of Kobe, AD ahead of Shaq, Lillard ahead of Bird, etc.

Dont get me wrong, Joker is massively talented and currently on course to become the great center of all time. But I wouldn't rate his offense as the greatet ever over the likes of MJ and LBJ just because some stats suggest. Stats need to be put into context that's all I'm trying to say.
 
Douchebag K said:
Jack Nicklaus is clearly the better player over his career. The US Amateurs he won, in addition to the staggering amount of times he came 2nd and 3rd in majors is unmatched. Now if Tiger hadn't got caught up taking so much HGH and got so sidetracked banging 500 random hos he most likely would've passed him but ...

Agree for the most part tho
Click to expand...
I would argue banging 500 random hos is the main course not a side track.. lol..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top