The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

[infection]

I believe the percentage of games players miss would remain the same. I don’t believe we’re subtracting the 10 games everyone is going to sit.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Reducing the games does increase the importance. You cannot create these hypothetical anecdotes to argue that it makes no difference. The chances that Steph is playing in a game because it is important to him to win is greater in a 72 game season. The chances that Kawhi or Zion is playing in a game because the are healthy is greater in a 72 game season than an 82 game season. The incentive to play because it's important to win is always greater in 72 than in 82 and the chances of sitting due to inadequate health are always lower.

After game 25-30 the standing don't change all that much. The incentive to play should be higher... games should matter a bit more... but the overall problem is the "ring culture" according to some here... 10 less games doesn't change that. Instead of 82 pointless games... you have 72... again problem solved?

I don't believe it is a complete solution, but I find it hard to believe that reducing amount of games does not make the games more important. I also think the Fast and the Furious movie is a dreadful comparison because while people line up for movie stars, explosions, and actions they do not line up for worse basketball compared to better basketball. If you can have some skepticism that better basketball may not produce better viewership, I have some skepticism that 82 games is the best way to generate revenue for the NBA long term.

Its a great comparison. Fast and Furious gives cheap thrills and stars. Give the casuals some sweet highlights and the stars and they cool even if the teams aren't executing the perfect motion sets etc. Spurs played maybe the most beautiful basketball in recent memory... everyone said they boring. Stars are a big driver of the league and revenue. Remove 10 games and you might remove 3-4 load management games that Steph would have had... but you took 6 additional ones off the table.

This discussion is still fairly new and such a large change would take time. Adam Silver has stated he is open to the idea. CJ McCollum (speaking for the players) have said the players have discussed but no conclusion yet. It's not as if it is being voted on regularly and can be implemented in an instant. I'm pessimistic about it happening, but I don't take the fact that it hasn't been passed as an indication that it is a bad idea. I bet you can't find a single NBA fan who can't name something they wouldn't change about the league, but that doesn't mean all of the changes are bad idea. The financial implications of this move (both in short and long term) are not concrete. But the quality of the NBA product is something they should always be conscious of and increasing the quality of their product is the best way to keep revenue healthy.

Maybe it gets some traction... it would come with a short term loss of revenue for both sides. That hurts the players who are short term focused and the teams bottom line (and valuations). I think it will be one of the last things they do to make the regular season more meaningful... many seem to think it should be the main thing or first thing... I just don't think so.

 

[KqWIN]

Here’s the problem, from my view…

It’s people like us that complain about the product. We’re not the normies. We’re also an exception. We’re a consistent base, despite being a relative minority. We’re watching regardless, and we watch a lot of games so we complain about the product. But the league isn’t likely to lose us. To whatever degree they decrease our viewership, they’re gaining a bunch of casuals — their real target. How much does a 10 game reduction improve the product? I’d have a hard time thinking your ceiling on potential benefit to product is higher than 10% (and I’m feeling that’s pretty generous… my guess is that it’s negligible, especially after rebalancing [think lifestyle creep as an analogy, in a way]). Is a 10% improvement in product perceivable to the casual fan? I’d have serious doubts. Again, the people that the 10% is perceivable to are us assholes that will be watching anyway.

So the losses are real and tangible (ticket sales, local TV, concessions, merchandise) while the potential benefits are entirely theoretical, and could potential not be realized at all.

By far the biggest driver of NBA revenue is the national TV deal and a reduction of games would have see no decrease in the number of national TV games. A small percentage increase in National TV viewership would offset a much larger percentage decrease in local TV money. A 10% reduction in games doesn't even mean a 10% reduction in ticket sale revenue and it definitely is not a 10% in total revenue. And for casuals, the most important thing possible is that big name stars are playing. The NBA has taken the path of trying to force players to play with fines, which is something, but I don't think it's debatable that reducing the number of games also increases the chances of a star playing on any given night.

 

[KqWIN]

After game 25-30 the standing don't change all that much. The incentive to play should be higher... games should matter a bit more... but the overall problem is the "ring culture" according to some here... 10 less games doesn't change that. Instead of 82 pointless games... you have 72... again problem solved?


Its a great comparison. Fast and Furious gives cheap thrills and stars. Give the casuals some sweet highlights and the stars and they cool even if the teams aren't executing the perfect motion sets etc. Spurs played maybe the most beautiful basketball in recent memory... everyone said they boring. Stars are a big driver of the league and revenue. Remove 10 games and you might remove 3-4 load management games that Steph would have had... but you took 6 additional ones off the table.


Maybe it gets some traction... it would come with a short term loss of revenue for both sides. That hurts the players who are short term focused and the teams bottom line (and valuations). I think it will be one of the last things they do to make the regular season more meaningful... many seem to think it should be the main thing or first thing... I just don't think so.

For the one millionth time, I do not think it solves the entire problem. This is the last time you say "problem solved" and I have to repeat myself. It's a step in the right direction and will leave the NBA in a better spot than 82. It is not the entire solution. It's literally in the post you quoted. Why you keep moving the goalposts, I have no idea. Imagine if I replied to your responses with "problem solved?" because it does solve the problem entirely. I'll tell you what, I agree with a lot of changes you proposed....but there ain't a single one that is a yes to "problem solved". But I don't feel the need move the goalposts. A good idea can still be a good idea even if it does not solve the entire problem. What next, you gonna say my proposal doesn't solve world hunger?

By reducing the number of games, you are increasing the likelihood of the cheap thrills and stars. It's a terrible comparison. 72 games means that the chances Steph is playing on national TV is greater. When I say the quality of games is higher, I do not mean playing Spurs basketball. Where the hell did that come from? I am talking about the big ticket players playing in big ticket games on national TV. The chances of him playing because it's important to win is greater, the chances of him playing because he is not already injured is greater, the chances of him playing because he does not need to rest for injury prevention is greater. Casuals are not watching more basketball because there is less talent on the floor and the game is less important.

As for your last point, again....do not care to argue if it WILL happen. I'm talking about if it should happen. But the fact that it hasn't happened does not feel like a strong argument as to why it shouldn't happen.

 

[Agent#00]

Todays nba have no rivalry, everybody’s buddy buddy. Don’t want to hurt each others feelings. Who’s gonna watch that?

 

[infection]

If we as a moderation staff removed 12% of all threads, would it improve the quality of the rest of the forum because we’d be less likely to have endless HH/KqWIN debates, or would those debates move to the other threads?

 

[HermanG]

If you combine the tanking incentives with the play-in format, you end up in a situation where there are not many teams left out who actually dont want to be left out.

Reducing games doesnt change that at all.

Increasing teams to 32 would help and getting rid of the play-in would be the 2nd easy option. Back before play-in was implemented, the playoff bubble used to be an actual thing.

 

[hgb]

I think what Cy's talking about is the main problem. Losing should never be a incentivized. Also, I think play-in is a good thing, because it means more teams will be in the running for playoffs much longer.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You sound like the type of person that makes up alternative scenarios that have no bearing on a particular subject when you are in over your head.

Yes billionaires have never considered multiple revenue projections/scenarios. FOH.

I never said they haven't considered it. I said they have never had a serious cost benefits analysis conducted. No one owner could do that as it would take access to every teams financials which NBA team are never going to be fully transparent about.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I believe the percentage of games players miss would remain the same. I don’t believe we’re subtracting the 10 games everyone is going to sit.

There's no way it would be the same. A serious reduction of games would reduce injuries which would increase games played by some degree.

 

[fishonjazz]

You sound like the people who say head coaches can never be wrong because they are head coaches of a NBA team.

That actually sounds like the argument that you typically make.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That actually sounds like the argument that you typically make.

Nope