The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Like we all know Luka is going to have an insane HoF career with all time great stats and all, but his lack of defense and attitude will likely hold him back from winning at the highest level.

I'd gladly take him in for a reasonable star package like what we got for Donovan , but I wouldn't give an all time package to get him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Imo he has a higher percentage chance of being the next Harden than he does the next Steph

Wasn't really comparing them per se... just trying to give some perspective. Its just funny we have some declaring him not a winner and mentioning him with Harden. He has already shown he isn't a guy who shrinks in the playoffs. As a 22 yo he led his team to the conference finals. Most dudes don't have his level of success this early and I think every guy is "not a championship player" until they win one and then everyone is like "of course he's a winner".

He has some warts but if he gets in better shape and participates more in defense then some of that really smooths over. I'm just not sure where the "this guy is not a winning player" narrative is coming from... can't think of many dudes that have had more success than him at his age.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Wasn't really comparing them per se... just trying to give some perspective. Its just funny we have some declaring him not a winner and mentioning him with Harden. He has already shown he isn't a guy who shrinks in the playoffs. As a 22 yo he led his team to the conference finals. Most dudes don't have his level of success this early and I think every guy is "not a championship player" until they win one and then everyone is like "of course he's a winner".

He has some warts but if he gets in better shape and participates more in defense then some of that really smooths over. I'm just not sure where the "this guy is not a winning player" narrative is coming from... can't think of many dudes that have had more success than him at his age.

No, I think if you don't play defense and regularly don't even get back on D then you aren't a winner at that high level.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No, I think if you don't play defense and regularly don't even get back on D then you aren't a winner at that high level.

Giannis "you can't win at a high level if you can't shoot"

Jokic "you can't win at a high level if you can't anchor a great defense as a center"

Steph "you can't win at a high level being a small shooter... he will also get hunted on defense"

Guys aren't championship players... until they are... and then everyone pretends they always believed.

 

[fishonjazz]

Imo he has a higher percentage chance of being the next Harden than he does the next Steph

As does basically every nba player. Steph is an all time great. Harden is an all star. Way more all stars than all time greats.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Giannis "you can't win at a high level if you can't shoot"

Jokic "you can't win at a high level if you can't anchor a great defense as a center"

Steph "you can't win at a high level being a small shooter... he will also get hunted on defense"

Guys aren't championship players... until they are... and then everyone pretends they always believed.

Lmao none of these are close to effort level and/or attitude questions.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

As does basically every nba player. Steph is an all time great. Harden is an all star. Way more all stars than all time greats.

No, I think there a number of stars who project to be more Steph like than Harden like. I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about play style and their effect on teammates/winning.

 

[fishonjazz]

No, I think there a number of stars who project to be more Steph like than Harden like. I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about play style and their effect on teammates/winning.

I see.

 

[Jingled]

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[HermanG]

Imo he has a higher percentage chance of being the next Harden than he does the next Steph

The negative narratives around Harden are that he chokes in the playoffs and doesnt have a true desire to win. Luka is the exact opposite in those aspects, and his warts are completely different.

His defensive issues arise from his fitness combined with his offensive usage rate. He is being targeted on the defensive end to slow his offense down and that has been the playbook against him for a while. If you go watch the Mavs vs Suns series from 2022 and you see how he improves his defense after he gives the ball more to Brunson and Dinwiddie and starts to rest more on offense. They blew the Suns out in games 6 and 7 (in historical fashion in the latter) after they figured that out.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The negative narratives around Harden are that he chokes in the playoffs and doesnt have a true desire to win. Luka is the exact opposite in those aspects, and his warts are completely different.

His defensive issues arise from his fitness combined with his offensive usage rate. He is being targeted on the defensive end to slow his offense down and that has been the playbook against him for a while. If you go watch the Mavs vs Suns series from 2022 and you see how he improves his defense after he gives the ball more to Brunson and Dinwiddie and starts to rest more on offense. They blew the Suns out in games 6 and 7 (in historical fashion in the latter) after they figured that out.

Wrong.

The negative around Harden/Doncic is that they have to the 100% vocal point of the offense at all times or they aren't nearly as effective. Conditioning is a BS excuse for lack of will/desire to compete on both ends for entire games.

Garden and Luka have the same desire to win, it just has to be 100% on their terms.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

Don't really understand the debate about this player beeing a winner or not. You win as a team. Steph will probably not win anything without Draymond and Klay. Put the right guys around Luka and he will got rings.
But i agree on the defensive part. To be a top player , you have to play at least some defense too.