The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Sorry I was not specific enough for you. Trump changed the eligibility standards for food stamps to make it harder to qualify.



When you're hungry, the difference is minimal.



The case is still pending.



https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/06/opin...way-to-go-clarke-rosenberg-opinion/index.html





Breathable air and potable water is not a benefit? Yes, it's aimed at the poor, as the industries that pollute are located near where poor people live. If they were located where rich people live, they'd get regulated.



If you want to believe that it is only a coincidence that Trump's policies hurt only the poor or minorities, who am I to tell you otherwise (especially when Trump will do it himself)?
Good info. Thank you.

Trump just cares about financial success and thinks everything else will roll down for everybody else. For example - he doesn't care about the environment because he wants corporations to make as much money as possible to create as many jobs as possible to employ as many people as possible.

The food stamps thing is idiotic. The program damn near doubled under Obama. So all these starving people just decided to go get food all the sudden? And now, with record unemployment and financial rates, the measures should be lessened. I don't know about you, but I've seen plenty of people dressed well and driving a brand new car using food stamps. The program sucks.

The whole argument against Trump has been name calling from the beginning. I just don't buy it. Every move he does could be construed as him attacking some group, but I think he's mainly attacking poorly run or designed systems. We have so many bogus programs which are abused daily costing us billions.





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Red

Well-Known Member
Life is good!
That's great! I'm happy for ya. My wife and I are on fixed incomes, but I've been blessed throughout my life. We're far from wealthy at all, but being on the lower end of an income scale has never been a reason to complain, because I know the VAST majority of humanity is far worse off they we have ever been. Bit of a hard knock to start 2020. Wife was in a bad car accident; gonna take months to recover, but she'll get there, one day at a time.

I've always had an "ability", not sure what else to call it, a "gift", I'm not sure, to correctly predict trends and developments in several areas of interest to me. Not just the social sciences, the field in which I worked, but in a few other disciplines as well. If that happens often enough, and it has, it gave me confidence to know I can often see how things will in fact trend. I just learned to trust my instincts and insight. For instance, I was looking at my journal the other day, and noticed that on the day Trump descended the escalator in Trump Tower to declare his candidacy, I wrote three words: "rule of law". Lol, I knew what I meant by that. That there would be an assault on that bedrock building block if he were ever president. Seeing the news the past two days, from the opposition's perspective to be sure, of AG Barr taking a sledge hammer to the rule of law, demoralizing and politicizing our Justice Dept., it's hard not to think "yeah, that's what I was afraid of".

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ju...est-trump-including-stone-sentencing-n1135231

I know I must sound pretty arrogant at times, but I'm a humble person, really. Hey, Joe, of course I could be wrong. Maybe Trump will do something that will cause history to say he was the 21st century's greatest leader, who saved the human race from disaster.

At any rate, I count my blessings, Joe. I've had way more than(notice the correct usage, lolol?) my fair share. Life is plenty good enough.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
The food stamps thing is idiotic. The program damn near doubled under Obama. So all these starving people just decided to go get food all the sudden? And now, with record unemployment and financial rates, the measures should be lessened. I don't know about you, but I've seen plenty of people dressed well and driving a brand new car using food stamps. The program sucks.

The whole argument against Trump has been name calling from the beginning. I just don't buy it. Every move he does could be construed as him attacking some group, but I think he's mainly attacking poorly run or designed systems. We have so many bogus programs which are abused daily costing us billions.
I agreed that I had done a poor job explaining the food stamp issue the first time; perhaps you are still focused on that explanation. I will try to be clearer. It is true that under static eligibility requirements, food stamp use will rise and fall with the economy. I agree a decline from reduced usage against static eligibility requirements are not an attack by Trump. My point was that Trump changed the eligibility requirements to make it harder to get food stamps.

I've seen plenty of people lose their jobs or get their hours cut after buying a new car. It's not like you can return a new car and get your money back, you lose a huge percentage of its value after you drive it off the lot. Should people be doubly punished for the bad timing by not getting food stamps?

Trump's whole campaign has been name-calling from the beginning. Why do you only hear one direction on that?
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I agreed that I had done a poor job explaining the food stamp issue the first time; perhaps you are still focused on that explanation. I will try to be clearer. It is true that under static eligibility requirements, food stamp use will rise and fall with the economy. I agree a decline from reduced usage against static eligibility requirements are not an attack by Trump. My point was that Trump changed the eligibility requirements to make it harder to get food stamps.

I've seen plenty of people lose their jobs or get their hours cut after buying a new car. It's not like you can return a new car and get your money back, you lose a huge percentage of its value after you drive it off the lot. Should people be doubly punished for the bad timing by not getting food stamps?

Trump's whole campaign has been name-calling from the beginning. Why do you only hear one direction on that?
Once again, you are using the very tiny sample of the person who bought a new car but lost their job should get food stamps example. But sure, I guess they need food stamps. Just because Shaq banked in a 3 one time doesn't make him a 3 point threat. Tons of people abuse the food stamp system. I'm glad it's harder to get them.

I never said Trump wasn't an anus. He is the most unprofessional president we have ever had. I don't equate unprofessionalism with hating certain groups of people. The media is twisting that narrative.

Also, I don't rate my president by his professionalism. I rate it by the economy and my family's safety. As long as he isn't outright attacking people in our country or starting wars outside it, which he isn't on either, I'm okay with the job he's doing. I wish he had more polish and would stay off Twitter, but once again, I care more about his job.



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Red

Well-Known Member
Authoritarianism experts say time is running out for Americans to stop Trump.

Can't happen here? Like hell it can't happen here.

https://www.businessinsider.com/aut...me-running-out-americans-to-stop-trump-2020-2

"If Americans are concerned that President Donald Trump and Republicans are moving the US toward becoming a one-party, authoritarian state, they are running out of time to stop them, experts warned.

Trump has exhibited autocratic impulses since his 2016 campaign and from the moment he entered the White House.

The president has attacked virtually every democratic institution in the US when he's felt its actions were unfavorable to his agenda or public appearance. Meanwhile, he pushed traditional US allies away while openly embracing many of the world's most repressive leaders.

These trends have raised concern among top experts on authoritarianism, fascism, and democracy, but they've often said that the robust political system in the US, with its checks and balances and constitutional norms, has prevented Trump from becoming a full-blown authoritarian and doing whatever he wants....."

....."The system is enabling Trump," Jason Stanley, a Yale philosophy professor who wrote "How Fascism Works," told Insider.

"There need to be mass protests," he said. "The Republican Party is betraying democracy, and these are historical times. Someone has got to push back.

The deeply worrying moment is when you start to become a one-party state," Stanley added. "The Republican Party has shown that it has no interest in multi-party democracy ... They are much more concerned with power, with consolidating power."

Stanley said recent actions by Republicans and Trump were "straight from the literature on authoritarianism."
 

Gameface

Black Lives Matter
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
Good info. Thank you.

Trump just cares about financial success and thinks everything else will roll down for everybody else. For example - he doesn't care about the environment because he wants corporations to make as much money as possible to create as many jobs as possible to employ as many people as possible.

The food stamps thing is idiotic. The program damn near doubled under Obama. So all these starving people just decided to go get food all the sudden? And now, with record unemployment and financial rates, the measures should be lessened. I don't know about you, but I've seen plenty of people dressed well and driving a brand new car using food stamps. The program sucks.

The whole argument against Trump has been name calling from the beginning. I just don't buy it. Every move he does could be construed as him attacking some group, but I think he's mainly attacking poorly run or designed systems. We have so many bogus programs which are abused daily costing us billions.





Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
A few years ago I was on food stamps. It was temporary during a period when I was unemployed. I did eventually sell a car I really liked, but it's not like I sold my decent clothes. I fought hard to keep my house. And That first shopping trip after I swallowed my pride and got food stamps damn near made me cry because I had gone months not being able to put real food in my fridge.

You want people to look the part when they're on food stamps? I don't understand that. When working I was making around 80k. Then that was gone for about 14 months. I didn't sell every decent thing I owned for pennies on the dollar and I'm glad I didn't. I did sell a lot of stuff but most stuff you have is not desirable for resale. I sold all my guns because those do hold their value. I sold a few other high-end items because really high-end stuff is desirable for resale. But no one wants my used shoes or my suit jacket.

So you see someone in a nice car on food stamps. That person is probably trying to hold on just that little while longer until they find a job. They don't need to have holes in their clothes and drive some beater car. The requirements were hard enough when I went on food stamps. It was hard enough getting a subsidy for my 6 months late gas bill.

I ended up getting a job that paid as much as I had been making after working for $9/hr as a security guard, driving a vehicle we borrowed from a family member. I'm back to paying my taxes and paying all my bills and being a productive member of society, and I'm thankful that I had a few months worth of food stamps to get me through.
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Good info. Thank you.

Trump just cares about financial success and thinks everything else will roll down for everybody else. For example - he doesn't care about the environment because he wants corporations to make as much money as possible to create as many jobs as possible to employ as many people as possible.

The food stamps thing is idiotic. The program damn near doubled under Obama. So all these starving people just decided to go get food all the sudden? And now, with record unemployment and financial rates, the measures should be lessened. I don't know about you, but I've seen plenty of people dressed well and driving a brand new car using food stamps. The program sucks.

The whole argument against Trump has been name calling from the beginning. I just don't buy it. Every move he does could be construed as him attacking some group, but I think he's mainly attacking poorly run or designed systems. We have so many bogus programs which are abused daily costing us billions.





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for your first sentence, How much will money matter when we cant breathe air or drink water etc?

For your anectdote about seeing plenty of people dressed well and driving brand new cars using food stamps, I simply dont believe you. I think you are lying. Me personally? I have literally never seen a food stamp and have no idea what they look like. I have never seen anyone use food stamps or heard anyone say that they use them (and i live in the poor part of slc valley and am surrounded by liberals and minorities). Yet you want me to believe that you are in a store and you see another customer using food stamps and then you follow them out to the parking lot and watch them get into a brand new car? Ya, doesn't sound legit. If you are telling the truth then you are weird for following food stamp users out to the parking lot just to see what vehicle they are driving.
 
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Jonah

Well-Known Member
for your first sentence, How much will matter money when we cant breathe air or drink water etc?

For your anectdote about seeing plenty of people dressed well and driving brand new cars using food stamps, I simply dont believe you. I think you are lying. Me personally? I have literally never seen a food stamp and have no idea what they look like. I have never seen anyone use food stamps or heard anyone say that they use them (and i live in the poor part of slc valley and am surrounded by liberals and minorities). Yet you want me to believe that you are in a store and you see another customer using food stamps and then you follow them out to the parking lot and watch them get into a brand new car? Ya, doesn't sound legit. If you are telling the truth then you are weird for following food stamp users out to the parking lot just to see what vehicle they are driving.
Food stamp purchases are not made with actual stamps but with a plastic EBT (electronic benefits transfer) card similar to a debit or credit card. At a grocery store you enter your pin number, swipe the card at the same terminal as everybody else and get your receipt. The vast majority of fellow shoppers would not know you’re purchasing food via food stamps or a normal debit card.
 

Gameface

Black Lives Matter
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
Food stamp purchases are not made with actual stamps but with a plastic EBT (electronic benefits transfer) card similar to a debit or credit card. At a grocery store you enter your pin number, swipe the card at the same terminal as everybody else and get your receipt. The vast majority of fellow shoppers would not know you’re purchasing food via food stamps or a normal debit card.
Yep, these stories of "I see people on food stamps buying prime steaks and caviar and driving a new Escalade..." are full on horse poop.

LoPo is a new entry on my list of posters who are not honest.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
for your first sentence, How much will money matter when we cant breathe air or drink water etc?

For your anectdote about seeing plenty of people dressed well and driving brand new cars using food stamps, I simply dont believe you. I think you are lying. Me personally? I have literally never seen a food stamp and have no idea what they look like. I have never seen anyone use food stamps or heard anyone say that they use them (and i live in the poor part of slc valley and am surrounded by liberals and minorities). Yet you want me to believe that you are in a store and you see another customer using food stamps and then you follow them out to the parking lot and watch them get into a brand new car? Ya, doesn't sound legit. If you are telling the truth then you are weird for following food stamp users out to the parking lot just to see what vehicle they are driving.
Fish. You're better than this or I overestimated your respect for me. To call me a liar. Damn.

I've lived about 75% of my life in Alabama. I've also spent time in NC, WY and now Tennessee. On more occasions than I can count on one hand, I've seen people using the system. There used to be the old vouchers then they went to a card. It's not hard to identify. I've seen people with the two different groups of stuff in the line. You know, separated by the little plastic thing at the grocery store. They would have piles of steak, high end meat, etc. in one purchase paid with the issued card and then their beer and other personal items in the other stack of stuff. All the while, their kids are wearing new sneakers playing on a their own cell phone that was bigger than mine. I haven't seen as much in recent years, but the massive emergence of self check out is probably the reason.

I didn't stalk these people, but I am observant. Since I'm behind these people in line, of course I'm leaving not long after them. That's why I'm able to see what they drive. Near my home of 9 years in Alabama, I went to a local, smaller, Mom & Pop type grocery store. The parking lot wasn't as big so there weren't many cars to start with.

Sure, like Gameface was saying. And I am adamant in defending - if you need a program, use the program. We need temporary programs for people who are in a bad way. HOWEVER, so many of our programs enable complacency. People abuse systems that aren't better protecting against abuse. For an easy example - how many times do you park in a parking lot and see some perfectly abled person park in a handicapped spot yet are able to jump right out and go inside? I had a buddy in college who parked in handicapped spots when in a rush because his dad was a doctor.

Back to the moral of the story. Trump making it harder for food stamps isn't eliminating a good program. Hopefully, it's eliminated some of the people who aren't using it the right way without hurting those who need it.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Yep, these stories of "I see people on food stamps buying prime steaks and caviar and driving a new Escalade..." are full on horse poop.

LoPo is a new entry on my list of posters who are not honest.
Read the post above Gameface. I'm not lying.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I’ve never read any report showing me that food stamp fraud is rampant. Is it more excessive than any other type of fraud? I’m fine with some fraud as long as the vast majority are served. Right? Like no one here expects there to be zero fraud in any aspect of their life, right? No matter what, there will always be a certain percentage of people who Cheat on tithing, cheat on tests, exceed the speed limit, drive without seat belts, and abuse SNAP, right?

I’m curious, @LoPo, what are current fraud rates for food stamp recipients? And what rate would be acceptable to you?
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I’ve never read any report showing me that food stamp fraud is rampant. Is it more excessive than any other type of fraud? I’m fine with some fraud as long as the vast majority are served.

I’m curious, @LoPo, what are current fraud rates for food stamp recipients? And what rate would be acceptable to you?
No idea. For all I know, the people with brand new shoes, cell phones and cars were in a much worst state than their appearances showed.

Donald Trump didn't attack any person with his moves on this. He's attacking the system. You can't change anything right now without somebody getting hurt. AHCA helped millions but also made even more millions pay more for health care. Did we need AHCA? Yes. Does higher health insurance suck? Yes. Did Obama "attack" people who didn't need health care but have to pay higher rates? No. I'm not going to spin the narrative to say that Obama attacked me.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Once again, you are using the very tiny sample ...
The "new car" was your tiny sample, not mine.

Tons of people abuse the food stamp system. I'm glad it's harder to get them.
What percentage of recipients is "tons" and how many of those "tons" were affected by this reform?

I don't equate unprofessionalism with hating certain groups of people.
I agree these are completely different things.

The media is twisting that narrative.
The same media that Trump paid to advertise having 5 black kids executed after they were exonerated?

Also, I don't rate my president by his professionalism. I rate it by the economy and my family's safety. As long as he isn't outright attacking people in our country or starting wars outside it, which he isn't on either, I'm okay with the job he's doing. I wish he had more polish and would stay off Twitter, but once again, I care more about his job.
OK.
 

Harambe

Well-Known Member
Contributor
No idea. For all I know, the people with brand new shoes, cell phones and cars were in a much worst state than their appearances showed.

Donald Trump didn't attack any person with his moves on this. He's attacking the system. You can't change anything right now without somebody getting hurt. AHCA helped millions but also made even more millions pay more for health care. Did we need AHCA? Yes. Does higher health insurance suck? Yes. Did Obama "attack" people who didn't need health care but have to pay higher rates? No. I'm not going to spin the narrative to say that Obama attacked me.
Sure.

Demonstrate to us how the system is systemically broken, or that we as a society will gain from it being attacked, or even attacked in this manner
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
No idea. For all I know, the people with brand new shoes, cell phones and cars were in a much worst state than their appearances showed.

Donald Trump didn't attack any person with his moves on this. He's attacking the system. You can't change anything right now without somebody getting hurt. AHCA helped millions but also made even more millions pay more for health care. Did we need AHCA? Yes. Does higher health insurance suck? Yes. Did Obama "attack" people who didn't need health care but have to pay higher rates? No. I'm not going to spin the narrative to say that Obama attacked me.
Sooooooo you have zero quantitative data, just your own personal anecdotal accounts?

Am I correct in my observation?
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member

So donald is using his powers as president to punish a state who’s launching lawsuits into his personal businesses? Interesting.

If only we had seen Donald a using the powers of his office before. If only we had seen his leveraging the powers of the American government to benefit himself personally.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WARNED YOU ALL ABOUT. DUH.

5:30-6:00 “do any of us have confidence that this president wont abuse his power as president to benefit himself personally?”
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
For an easy example - how many times do you park in a parking lot and see some perfectly abled person park in a handicapped spot yet are able to jump right out and go inside?
I went to college with a guy like that.

He had been a paratrooper in the army, and his knees that were painful to walk more than a few hundred feet on. Perhaps he should have used a wheelchair to make me feel better about his parking?
 
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