The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

[One Brow]

Who the hell thinks this is a good idea? What’s the argument for this?

What the policy memo says is

• Clarifies that temporary visits to the United States do not establish U.S. residence and explains the distinction between residence and physical presence in the United States.
• Explains that USCIS no longer considers children of U.S. government employees and U.S. armed forces members residing outside the United States as “residing in the United States” for purposes of acquiring citizenship under INA 320.

Is INA 320 the primary, only, or unlimited way a child of a US citizen can gain citizenship?

 

[JazzGal]

Who the hell thinks this is a good idea? What’s the argument for this?

I was born on an air force base in England. So this mean that someone like me who is born now will not be a U.S. citizen? Doesn't all of this stuff (like this and like deporting service members' families) make people less likely to join the military?

 

[babe]

How long until Trump proposes a swap with Denmark? Puerto Rico for Greenland lol.

really, you never actually think.

While PR is pretty poorly governed by Dems, and Trump will give them the critical tweets, it would be his objective to improve life for people there. you wouldn't question the little politico's huge salaries and no results. You never think, actually.

Trump isn't doing a swap. PR is strategic, so is Greenland. You weren't worried about Xi building nuclear missile silos there for his Red Army, were you?

You weren't concerned about drug traffickers running the Border, either. Rapists, Pimps, extortionists, profiteers.... land-lubber pirates exploiting human poverty and human hopes, either. Breaking every law there is to break, and running guns as well. You see no difference between these gangs and people who want to live in a peaceful place where they can get a good job and live in safety, and the gangbangers.

No way is Trump not gonna pay for any land we use for the wall, and a fair price too.

some political crusaders are all hot about "no more borders". Some folks I know, refugees from Venezuela, have the big sign out in their yard. "There are no Illegal Humans". Well, but maybe there are illegal pets, maybe. No illegal human poop either, but very very illegal dog poop. It's just poorly reasoned emotional jargon. We make laws for good reasons, some people don't obey the law. What they do is illegal, that's all there is to it.

you really have no idea how crazy these leftist crusaders look to people with common sense.

 

[The Thriller]

I was born on an air force base in England. So this mean that someone like me who is born now will not be a U.S. citizen? Doesn't all of this stuff (like this and like deporting service members' families) make people less likely to join the military?

Right? I seem to remember the GOP claiming to be the party of the military. Does bowing to every dictator out there while pulling crap like this endear the GOP to military families?

 

[One Brow]

This is the section.

A. General Requirements: Genetic, Legitimated, or Adopted Child Automatically Acquiring Citizenship after Birth A child born outside of the United States automatically becomes a U.S. citizen when all of the following conditions have been met on or after February 27, 2001:
• The child has at least one parent, including an adoptive parent3 who is a U.S. citizen by birth or through naturalization;
• The child is under 18 years of age;
• The child is a lawful permanent resident (LPR); and
• The child is residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent.

So, if you marry someone in another country, have a child with them, your spouse is denied entry/residency, and the child stays with them, then the child can be denied citizenship.

 

[babe]

Who the hell thinks this is a good idea? What’s the argument for this?

straining at gnats, swallowing camels......

A number of non-citizens are employed abroad. They might have applications to become citizens. The issue is you need to be a citizen for your children to become citizens. If you have not become a citizen yet, your children will have to petition, well... you will have to petition for them before they turn 18.... to become citizens. Citizens generally maintain a legal residence in the US, if so this doesn't apply. But if you are a citizen, there is no basis to deny an application for your children born abroad. A lot of Americans working abroad adopt children. You just need to get the record straight and follow the law. You can't just claim they're born to you, without the proofs.

Non-citizens living inside the US will soon have to apply for their children to become citizens, right along with their own applications. It is the intent of the Trump administration to make the same laws apply to all......and to establish uniform procedures for citizens and non-citizens alike. No babe will be a citizen without the applications under the laws.

This narrow reasoning is necessary to be consistent in the application of the laws.

 

[One Brow]

I was born on an air force base in England. So this mean that someone like me who is born now will not be a U.S. citizen? Doesn't all of this stuff (like this and like deporting service members' families) make people less likely to join the military?

Background
Children born outside the United States who did not acquire U.S. citizenship at birth have two methods by which they could become U.S. citizens. The first method permits children to automatically become U.S. citizens under INA 320. Among other eligibility criteria, the statute requires the child to be “residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the citizen parent pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence.

Your parents probably claimed your US citizenship at your birth, in which case this would not apply to you.

 

[babe]

This is the section.



So, if you marry someone in another country, have a child with them, your spouse is denied entry/residency, and the child stays with them, then the child can be denied citizenship.

nonsense. If you don't get married there, you can still apply for your child. If you do get married there, you can apply for your wife and child.

Trump is not interested in denying citizenship to people who follow the laws.

 

[One Brow]

straining at gnats, swallowing camels......

A number of non-citizens are employed abroad. They might have applications to become citizens. The issue is you need to be a citizen for your children to become citizens. If you have not become a citizen yet, your children will have to petition, well... you will have to petition for them before they turn 18.... to become citizens.

Not what this policy is about. Follow the link in the tweet and read it.

Edit: my mistake, the policy is at one link from the link in the tweet.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf

 

[One Brow]

Trump is not interested in denying citizenship to people who follow the laws.

Trump is changing how the law is applied with this memo.

USCIS policy previously provided that children of U.S. government employees and members of the U.S. armed forces who were employed or stationed outside of the United States should be considered to be both “residing in the United States” for purposes of INA 320 and “residing outside of the United States” for purposes of INA 322.13 Their parents were permitted to file an Application for Certificate of Citizenship (Form N-600) on their behalf and obtain a Certificate of Citizenship showing that they had acquired citizenship automatically, or their parents were permitted to file an Application for Citizenship and Issuance of Certificate Under Section 322 (Form N-600K) in order to apply for naturalization on the child’s behalf. USCIS previously arrived at the interpretation that children of members of the U.S. armed forces could be considered as “residing in the United States” when stationed abroad by comparison to naturalization under INA 316.
...
However, as of October 29, 2019, USCIS is no longer committed to this reasoning because the prior USCIS policy guidance is in conflict with several provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), especially with changes to the acquisition of citizenship statutes that occurred in 2008, after the initial policy determination in 2004.

 

[babe]

Your parents probably claimed your US citizenship at your birth, in which case this would not apply to you.

Under the old conventional process, the x in the box US citizen or the birth certificate issued saying the parents are US citizen was enough, all there was to it. But the new guidelines don't really change any of that. It just requires the documentation of the claimed birth, parentage, and citizenship of the parents.

Any non-citizen employee who has an supplication to become a citizen will make the same application for the children whether born abroad or within the US.

The regulations will help end false claims, that's about it. You will need to make true claims, that's all.

Pretty sure this will help end human trafficking.

 

[Zombie]

Your parents probably claimed your US citizenship at your birth, in which case this would not apply to you.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around on this, so I appreciate you clearing it up a bit. I don't really understand the point of this policy, but it brings to light how needlessly complicated this stuff is.

 

[babe]

Not what this policy is about. Follow the link in the tweet and read it.

I did. You didn't. Or you're not a lawyer.

looking again, I found the tweet, but not the linked documents I think you had before.

Pretty sure there is a lot of misinformation in tweets, reporting anonymous sources, for something that has officially been released now.

I think if there is any nonsense to it, the admin will respond to reasoned pressures with good sense..... but will nevertheless make the policy an effective tool for separating kidnapped children from non-parents, trafficked kids from fake "parents", and children sold abroad to "adoptive" US parents, and a helluva lot other stuff that has been going on.

 

[babe]

This is the section.



So, if you marry someone in another country, have a child with them, your spouse is denied entry/residency, and the child stays with them, then the child can be denied citizenship.

So I went back looking for your link to re-read it. I don't acquire 100% of anything on a first reading. Please re-post the link.

So in this statement I think you are right. But your former spouse or girlfriend can apply for immigration without you even if you hate her like hell. And your child can apply for immigration with the true statement that the estranged father is a US citizen, with proofs of such facts, can come here and apply for citizenship and get the inside track, especially if you file the papers attesting financial responsibility. You can also apply for legal custody internationally.

But if the mom is a terrorist, or is similarly hostile to you having anything to do with your child, you will need to make the case. In ordinary life scenarios, how many moms would really tell their kid "No way in Hell are you going to be a US Citizen".

Sometimes I agree with Bastiat about The Law, but I've been involved in bringing some people into the US, and have gone the distance doing it all legal. It is tedious, sometimes detailed, sometimes annoying.

But if this can stop one child from being trafficked into prostitution, I think it's worthwhile.

 

[One Brow]

Under the old conventional process, the x in the box US citizen or the birth certificate issued saying the parents are US citizen was enough, all there was to it. But the new guidelines don't really change any of that.

Well, there is one change to that.

U.S. Citizens who were Born, But Did Not Reside, in the United States
A U.S. citizen may have automatically acquired U.S. citizenship based on birth in the United States, but never actually resided in the United States. This U.S. citizen will not have established residence in the United States, and may be unable to transmit U.S. citizenship to his or her own children.

 

[One Brow]

So I went back looking for your link to re-read it. I don't acquire 100% of anything on a first reading. Please re-post the link.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf

I'm not sure how people this actually effects, though. Seems like it would be a small number.

 

[colton]

Who the hell thinks this is a good idea? What’s the argument for this?

Wow, that's crazy. And I bet much of that won't stand up in court. Guess we'll see.

 

[colton]

What the policy memo says is


Is INA 320 the primary, only, or unlimited way a child of a US citizen can gain citizenship?

Article says they can still apply for the child to be a citizen , but it was previously automatic.

 

[Red]

How long until Trump proposes a swap with Denmark? Puerto Rico for Greenland lol.

Actually, he already proposed a swap, and some Puerto Rican's have taken to the idea.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...rto-rico-greenland-puerto-ricans-are-n1045296

President Donald Trump has been joking recently about trading Puerto Rico for Greenland. But now it's Puerto Ricans who are the ones laughing — and many say they'd be happy with the trade.

Some called themselves the "Caribbean Vikings" and others shared all the benefits they would have if they stopped being a U.S. territory and became an autonomous Danish territory.

 

[One Brow]

Article says they can still apply for the child to be a citizen , but it was previously automatic.

That's not how I read the actual policy statement. The change seems most to apply to different naturalization procedures.