The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

[JazzyFresh]

Sadly, in terms of understanding what I was saying, none of what you accuse me of here, was at all present in my reply to you. Indeed, I specifically ended that short comment by stating:



Instead of simply understanding that most demagogues draw from the same basic playbook, which is absolutely not the same thing as saying Trump=Hitler, you, yourself, overdrew the comparison, in your reply to me. I don't know why, I believe I was clear enough, but it's of no importance in the grand scheme of things. I'll just put it on myself for somehow failing in what I hoped would be a teaching moment. I could go on for a long time describing the conditions within a society that can render the appearance of a cynical demagogue most likely, but I do understand most are not interested in history or applying any of the social sciences to America 2019.

You compared Trump to Hitler.

Yes or no?

I understand where you're coming from but in my eyes you're still in the wrong. We could find similarities between Bernie and Hitler. Obama and Hitler. Hitler had forms of gun control, but it would be garbage for me to say the two go hand in hand and are comparible. Using the two in the same sentence is an absolute disservice to the genocide that led to world war and one of the darkest times in human history. Completely irresponsible no matter how you spin it. We'll agree to disagree. Its not comparable.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Sadly, in terms of understanding what I was saying, none of what you accuse me of here, was at all present in my reply to you. Indeed, I specifically ended that short comment by stating:



Instead of simply understanding that most demagogues draw from the same basic playbook, which is absolutely not the same thing as saying Trump=Hitler, you, yourself, overdrew the comparison, in your reply to me. I don't know why, I believe I was clear enough, but it's of no importance in the grand scheme of things. I'll just put it on myself for somehow failing in what I hoped would be a teaching moment. I could go on for a long time describing the conditions within a society that can render the appearance of a cynical demagogue most likely, but I do understand most are not interested in history or applying any of the social sciences to America 2019.

Here's my question

What are you trying to accomplish with your comparison? What is the point behind it? What does it accomplish?

 

[Deleted member 365]

It’s great that this terrorist was taken down.

But I resent the guy who’s trying to take the focus off our national security and use this to satisfy his own personal vanity

 

[str8line]

It’s great that this terrorist was taken down.

But I sent the guy who’s trying to take the focus off our national security and use this to satisfy his own personal vanity

#Trumpsterbation

 

[str8line]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-game-5-of-world-series/ar-AAJs0zZ?li=BBnbfcL


He didn't want to throw out the first pitch, as every other President has. He knows he'd get booed to smithereens. Well, he got booed anyways.

 

[Deleted member 365]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-game-5-of-world-series/ar-AAJs0zZ?li=BBnbfcL


He didn't want to throw out the first pitch, as every other President has. He knows he'd get booed to smithereens. Well, he got booed anyways.

could he even throw the ball? Dead serious, the guy is the biggest fat *** we’ve had in office in 50+ years. The clumsy Gerald Ford looks like lebron james compared to Trump. Especially compared to 21st century presidents, who were very fit.

 

[Red]

You compared Trump to Hitler.

What are you trying to accomplish with your comparison? What is the point behind it? What does it accomplish?

Was Hitler a demagogue? Absolutely.
Is Trump a demagogue? Absolutely.
Therefore, the two men can be compared based on their identification as demagogues.

I assume you will be unable to understand or appreciate any of this, since you have already demonstrated that. I am not so full of myself to suggest the "pearls before swine" analogy in this instance, as one poster suggested I should. Yet, clearly, it must be acknowledged that I am wasting my time and energy discussing this with you, so you can just go on missing the point altogether. I'll make this my last comment to you on this particular subject.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...8d8d9c-4109-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html

"A textbook demagogue meets four tests. First, he identifies as a man of the masses, usually by attacking elites. Second, he creates great waves of passion. Third, he uses that passion for political benefit. Fourth, he tests or breaks established rules of governance. Taken together, this approach enables the demagogue to create a state within a state — a massive cult — that follows him alone.

Trump is the first demagogue to actually become president, but American history has seen a lot of them, whether the segregationist Alabama governor George Wallace, the Wisconsin senator and communist-chaser Joseph McCarthy, the Louisiana governor and senator Huey Long, or the Detroit “radio priest” Father Charles Coughlin. World history has seen Mussolini and Hitler and, more recently, Hugo Chávez in Venezuela and Alexander Lukashenko in Belarus."

See also: https://washingtonspectator.org/roberts-miller-deconstructing-trump/

"Hitler identified any person who disagreed with him as Jewish or “Jewified.” This strategy is pervasive in demagoguery. Demagoguery depends on the notion that everything can be reduced to “us” versus “them.” Therefore, the most threatening people to demagogues are any “us” who criticize the demagogue’s policies. So, as Burke noted, demagogues create a situation in which a person is either a) thoughtlessly committed to whatever the demagogue’s policy is at the moment or b) labeled a “them”—the “Jew” of the Hitler era or, in the present context, the RINO (Republican in Name Only), fake news, not a real American.

See also: https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/

"As a historian specializing in the Holocaust, Nazi Germany, and Europe in the era of the world wars, I have been repeatedly asked about the degree to which the current situation in the United States resembles the interwar period and the rise of fascism in Europe. I would note several troubling similarities and one important but equally troubling difference."

 

[One Brow]

could he even throw the ball? Dead serious, the guy is the biggest fat *** we’ve had in office in 50+ years. The clumsy Gerald Ford looks like lebron james compared to Trump. Especially compared to 21st century presidents, who were very fit.

The supposed clumsiness of Gerald Ford was over-played in the media, and immortalized more by Chevy Chase than anything Ford did.

 

[Getting Traded]

could he even throw the ball? Dead serious, the guy is the biggest fat *** we’ve had in office in 50+ years. The clumsy Gerald Ford looks like lebron james compared to Trump. Especially compared to 21st century presidents, who were very fit.

Ford, if you didn't know, was a college football star, played in the Rose Bowl. But I would definitely agree with your assessment of that fat pig Trump.

 

[Getting Traded]

Was Hitler a demagogue? Absolutely.

more recently, Hugo Chávez in Venezuela

Would you really categorize Chavez as a demogogue? I can't say I am an expert on Chavez, but perhaps the U.S. perspective of him is tainted because he was the leader of a socialist government, which actually raised the standard of living of the people there rather than oppressed them. Of course, our government has no concern for the welfare of the people of other nations if their government is antithetical to our goals and economic interests.

 

[Red]

Here's my question

What are you trying to accomplish with your comparison? What is the point behind it? What does it accomplish?

I'll just add this, since I quoted your above question in my last reply to you, but did not answer it in a direct manner. The founding fathers were quite concerned with the possibility of a demagogue ascending to the presidency. One might say demagogues are a type of political disease that can afflict democratic societies. You would not expect one in a monarchy, for instance, since monarchs do not run for their position in society, and do not have to use marketing to sell themselves. They do not have to devise cynical game plans to ascend to power. They're born into power.

The purpose, therefore, was to remind you that there are many styles of political leadership, and the demagogue is among the most dangerous, and something that should be avoided. Therefore, pointing out that Trump is a demagogue is useful information in understanding the situation that exists within our government at this time. And since we are dealing here with the very fundamentals of American governance, the fact that our founders were very concerned with the possibility of demagogues in our future, that fact alone should make one willing to address the question of whether Trump is just such a leader as something highly relevant.

Now, if you choose to say "Trump is not a demagogue", then, of course, the lesson is lost. If, on the other hand, you are able to recognize that he is a demagogue, but would prefer to compare his style to other demagogues altogether, since the leaders of fascism in the 20th century, as points of comparison with Trump, apparently greatly offends you, there are the American examples noted in my last comment. One should keep in mind, nonetheless, IMHO, the wise observation made by Timothy Snyder: "Post Truth is pre-Fascism".

 

[Red]

Would you really categorize Chavez as a demogogue? I can't say I am an expert on Chavez, but perhaps the U.S. perspective of him is tainted because he was the leader of a socialist government, which actually raised the standard of living of the people there rather than oppressed them. Of course, our government has no concern for the welfare of the people of other nations if their government is antithetical to our goals and economic interests.

That quote was from the article, of course, and not myself directly. I do not feel I know enough about Chavez to offer informed comment on that claim, or suggestion. The American examples, on the other hand, are spot-on good examples.