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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

Aside from preserving the post WWII democratic order, grinding the Russian army into the ground for the next generation without a single American soldier dying is *Chef’s kiss*.

If Ukraine is successful, this will have been the greatest American investment into Europe since the Marshall plan.

1. Russia’s armed forces severely shattered for decades without a single American soldier firing a shot. Due to demographics, this might actually be the final time Russia’s army is ever a threat to the world.
This
Is
A
Good
Thing
I’m sorry that we need to remind some Americans about this, but Russia is a bad actor. They’re the bad guys. Their intelligence and military have been used against America for the majority of history post WWII. Want this to end faster? Give Ukraine what it needs to defeat these Russian invaders.
2. Ukrainian nationalism and sovereignty clearly defined and geared towards the west. Bringing Ukraine into our orbit ala west Germany and Japan post WWII would be huge.
3. Nothing could potentially spark democratic change in Russia than a successful democracy in Ukraine along its western border. Want to give Russians the best chance of freedom since 1991? Support Ukraine’s resistance to this Russian invasion.

We really should be thinking both short and long term about this. The money is a drop in the bucket for our budget. It’s a fraction of what we spent in the 2000s in the middle east, or what Donald cost us in his trade wars, or what Covid cost our economy while Repubs encouraged their voters to resist masking and vaccination. Today’s investments into Ukraine could have huge ramifications going into the mid 21st century. Positive ramifications for America and its allies. This is a good thing!
 
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Gameface said:
You're making claims without any substance.

Putin is loosing the war. I believe it will end his reign as leader of post-Soviet Russia. Russia was considered a near-peer militarily to the U.S.. They are not considered that anymore. They are being handled by a nation with 1/3 the population and who started the war with a military that was miniscule in comparison to what Russia had on paper.

The main advantage Ukraine has had in this war is Russian corruption and incompetence. Ukraine is using our b-grade equipment, throwaway stuff by our standards and is outperforming Russia in pretty much every way.

The story of the Russian invasion into Ukraine is largely a story of hope and perseverance by the Ukrainian people. A story of failure and embarrassment by Russian leadership.
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Good post.

Stuff that we’re sending to Ukraine is stuff that has been essentially donated from our Guard’s. It’ll take time and money to replenish our reserves in case our military needs to respond. I was speaking with a top leader at Camp Williams here In utah about this. Not only has camp Williams donated Utah Guard stuff to Ukraine, he’s also helped train Ukrainian soldiers In Poland on how to use the material. A conversation with him actually made me more proud to be an American.

The Pentagon assesses what Ukraine needs and what training is required. They contact the Guards. Find the inventory and personnel they need. Get it together and ship it out. It’s not “Biden” or “DC” doing this alone. It’s a huge coordinated effort involving NATO, our intelligence apparatus, and all 50 Guards with countless bases throughout the world engaged to help preserve Ukrainian sovereignty.
 
Rubashov said:
The really interesting thing about this is the capture of the American right by Russian interests (far right by global standards.) the same people that have for the last 100 years campaigned for the destruction of Russia. How much money is flowing into their coffers from Russian interests? How much dirt do they have on the likes of Trump and his inner circle? It is one of the more staggering political transformations of history, Putin deserves no small credit for it.

What also astounds me is the sheer stupidity of the people that are buying and supporting this nonsense, they've got to be some of the dumbest mother****ers in the history of humanity. Not since the Greeks built a wooden horse and wheeled it up the gates of Troy have a group of people wilfully misunderstood their reality to the same degree. It is honestly ****ing nuts, the depths of human stupidity is endless.
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This article is always relevant when discussing why the right loves Putin.

www.theatlantic.com

The False Romance of Russia

American conservatives who find themselves identifying with Putin’s regime refuse to see the country for what it actually is.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

C42297EA-D1BE-4400-B1C9-FF5713DF35A5.png
The problem is, many on the right who hate imperfect America, would find Russia to be unbearable. The grass is definitely not greener on the other side. America for all its faults is still better in all measurables to Russia. Whether we’re talking about quality of life, freedom, ethics, education, etc. just because America isn’t perfect or just because you can’t stand the thought of two gay men getting married, doesn’t mean that Russia is better.
 
Where’s @babe? I find it curious how he posted almost daily when Russia was advancing towards Kiev and has disappeared ever since Ukraine began to repulse Russia’s advances.

Why?
 
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Red said:

View: https://twitter.com/tom_peters/status/1607268565333188608


View: https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1607097013497208832
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A lot of this is tribal. Biden is for aiding Ukraine so many Repubs must be against it. Just like most of the right’s reaction against vaccines, the ACA, etc. it’s tribal to be contrarian to the mainstream culture and leaders.

A lot of it is based on hatred of Zelensky. It was because of that “beautiful call” to Zelensky that Trump was impeached the first time.

Finally, the other part is more nefarious. Large swaths of the right view Putin and his regime as a prototype for America. They view his regime as a bastion for oligarchy and white patriarchy; Something they want to to replace our multicultural democracy with. Putin buddy Orban summed it up pretty well:

View: https://twitter.com/DeanObeidallah/status/1555607285661110273?s=20&t=FMRgwx5vM0lPhJP1WSA66w
 
The Thriller said:
Why are we so divided? It must’ve been because of Covid or something. It hurt people’s feelings? Because, if it weren’t for Covid, I’m sure we could all unite behind the courageous leadership of Paul Gosar.


View: https://twitter.com/repgosar/status/1611169495904550915?s=46&t=QB1CSKmv0wd6Xd0qjBO-2Q


Example 1,234,957,203 of Republican extremism and how it divides our country.
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If you asked an average American citizen who Paul Gosar is, they would not know. They would probably say “is he the guy from that movie?” Over he is a representative in the house. If you asked about who is Zelenskyy, I have a feeling it would be lower than what I would hope/expect (70%). In my adult family I bet it’s lower than 50% (16 people). Paul Gosar probably 2 people, my brother and I. Gosar’s view will not divide the country; more likely no one cares. The Ukraine situation does not keep Americans up at night.

I know you want to keep funding Ukraine but are you against a temporary cease fire? Is it because Putin requested it? Would you feel differently if Zelensky asked for a temporary cease fire and Putin refused?
 
Bucknutz said:
If you asked an average American citizen who Paul Gosar is, they would not know. They would probably say “is he the guy from that movie?” Over he is a representative in the house. If you asked about who is Zelenskyy, I have a feeling it would be lower than what I would hope/expect (70%). In my adult family I bet it’s lower than 50% (16 people). Paul Gosar probably 2 people, my brother and I. Gosar’s view will not divide the country; more likely no one cares. The Ukraine situation does not keep Americans up at night.

I know you want to keep funding Ukraine but are you against a temporary cease fire? Is it because Putin requested it? Would you feel differently if Zelensky asked for a temporary cease fire and Putin refused?
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"I know I invaded your country and killed a bunch of your people, but what say we stop bombing and whatnot for a day and a half (while I safely move my forces around in your country) and then we get back to killing you. Is that cool?"
 
gandalfe said:
"I know I invaded your country and killed a bunch of your people, but what say we stop bombing and whatnot for a day and a half (while I safely move my forces around in your country) and then we get back to killing you. Is that cool?"
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You know it happen before.
Christmas truce in WW1 is a famous cease fire. I bet the men and women fighting daily would love to take a break.
It’s easy for us to have an opinion across the world of “hey let’s keep fighting” when we are not doing the fighting. Orthodox Christians make up almost 80% of the Ukrainian population, so I would think that celebrating is big deal for that country and their people.
 
Bucknutz said:
You know it happen before.
Christmas truce in WW1 is a famous cease fire. I bet the men and women fighting daily would love to take a break.
It’s easy for us to have an opinion across the world of “hey let’s keep fighting” when we are not doing the fighting. Orthodox Christians make up almost 80% of the Ukrainian population, so I would think that celebrating is big deal for that country and their people.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that what I was saying was necessarily my view (personally, I'm a pacifist, although I believe violence in self defense is acceptable and, perhaps even necessary morally), but seems to be the general sense in Ukraine, and certainly by Zelensky/his generals. I can certainly understand why they believe it would be ludicrous to trust Putin when he says he'll stop killing them.

Also, I don't even pretend to understand the differences in theology/traditions between the various Orthodox Churches, however, it seems that only some of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine (there is both the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church of Ukraine and my eye glazed over trying to remember which was which) celebrate Christmas on 1/7 (in the Gregorian calendar), some of them celebrate it on 12/25. It's all massively confusing to me. Forget time zones, there is a situation over there where groups don't even agree on the date depending on their religion.
 
Bucknutz said:
You know it happen before.
Christmas truce in WW1 is a famous cease fire. I bet the men and women fighting daily would love to take a break.
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I bet they would also not like for Ukraine to relinquish it's current advantages while Russia regroups.

Bucknutz said:
It’s easy for us to have an opinion across the world of “hey let’s keep fighting” when we are not doing the fighting. Orthodox Christians make up almost 80% of the Ukrainian population, so I would think that celebrating is big deal for that country and their people.
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Yet, Zelensky chose not to agree to a cease-fire. You think you have a better insight into the minds and hearts of the Ukrainian troops?
 
One Brow said:
I bet they would also not like for Ukraine to relinquish its current advantages while Russia regroups.
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So in those 36 hours of cease fire it’s only advantageous for Russia?
One Brow said:
Yet, Zelensky chose not to agree to a cease-fire. You think you have a better insight into the minds and hearts of the Ukrainian troops?
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So is it strategy or heart/minds why he chose not to? My opinion is - no fighting is better than fighting. If it’s a temporary cease fire, withdraw of troops or end the war, I will be on that side. I care more about the average person who do the fighting. I understand it’s Putin that is the one killing his people and Ukraines. But the stress of being on the frontline not knowing when you live or die would be relieved for a 36 hour break.

I bet there are Ukrainians that want to continue to fight and some on the front lines that would like a break. I don’t know what’s in each persons mind.
 
Bucknutz said:
If you asked an average American citizen who Paul Gosar is, they would not know. They would probably say “is he the guy from that movie?” Over he is a representative in the house. If you asked about who is Zelenskyy, I have a feeling it would be lower than what I would hope/expect (70%). In my adult family I bet it’s lower than 50% (16 people). Paul Gosar probably 2 people, my brother and I. Gosar’s view will not divide the country; more likely no one cares. The Ukraine situation does not keep Americans up at night.

I know you want to keep funding Ukraine but are you against a temporary cease fire? Is it because Putin requested it? Would you feel differently if Zelensky asked for a temporary cease fire and Putin refused?
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Of course it’s because Putin requested it. And why would that be a bad thing for me to question Putin’s motives?

Why do right wingers ALWAYS give Putin the benefit of doubt (while questioning Zelensky) when he’s lied in every aspect possible about this war? Why wouldn’t Putin lie and exploit the humanity of others to hurt his enemies, just as he’s done countless times to America, Ukraine, and the west?

And of course I’d feel differently if Zelensky requested it. He’s not one of the world’s worst dictators and he’s not losing in his invasion of another country.

Cmon man.
 
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Bucknutz said:
If you asked an average American citizen who Paul Gosar is, they would not know. They would probably say “is he the guy from that movie?” Over he is a representative in the house. If you asked about who is Zelenskyy, I have a feeling it would be lower than what I would hope/expect (70%). In my adult family I bet it’s lower than 50% (16 people). Paul Gosar probably 2 people, my brother and I. Gosar’s view will not divide the country; more likely no one cares. The Ukraine situation does not keep Americans up at night.

I know you want to keep funding Ukraine but are you against a temporary cease fire? Is it because Putin requested it? Would you feel differently if Zelensky asked for a temporary cease fire and Putin refused?
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I agree with your last paragraph. I also agree about paul gosar (i dont know who he is) but I disagree about zelensky and ukraine. I think most all Americans know who zelensky is whether due to the invasion or the trump extortion scheme. I also think most americans care about the war in ukraine and are quite divided with almost all who are against helping ukraine being republicans.


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Bucknutz said:
So in those 36 hours of cease fire it’s only advantageous for Russia?

So is it strategy or heart/minds why he chose not to? My opinion is - no fighting is better than fighting. If it’s a temporary cease fire, withdraw of troops or end the war, I will be on that side. I care more about the average person who do the fighting. I understand it’s Putin that is the one killing his people and Ukraines. But the stress of being on the frontline not knowing when you live or die would be relieved for a 36 hour break.

I bet there are Ukrainians that want to continue to fight and some on the front lines that would like a break. I don’t know what’s in each persons mind.
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You seem to assume that putin is an honorable human who would honor a cease fire and never do something dirty or inhumane and use a cease fire to gain an advantage in the war he started. You have a much higher opinion of putin than i do.
I would assume that while ukraine was ceasing their fire, russia would see them with their guard down and kill as many ukrainians as possible.


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