The Plusses Last Night

[♪alt13]

So you would have started Evans at SF?

Yes! Start the game with a running team with length and defensive grit. Try to frustrate the other team early in the game.
Start
5 Kanter
4 Favors
3 Evans
2 Hayward
1 Burks
Halfway through the first sub Burke for Evans (pushing Hayward to 3 and Burks to 2) and Gobert for Kanter so that he can sub for Favors @ the 4 a few minutes later .

 

[fishonjazz]

Yes! Start the game with a running team with length and defensive grit. Try to frustrate the other team early in the game.
Start
5 Kanter
4 Favors
3 Evans
2 Hayward
1 Burks
Halfway through the first sub Burke for Evans (pushing Hayward to 3 and Burks to 2) and Gobert for Kanter so that he can sub for Favors @ the 4 a few minutes later .

I like it

 

[franklin]

In game one of the preseason? Absolutely.

Alternatively I would have considered letting Hayward play SF and starting Burks at the 2.

I honestly might have preferred the Jazz put a jersey on a sack of potatoes and run that out there rather than start Jefferson.

Go crazy. See what you got. One of the only things we know for certain is that Jefferson isn't in the long-term plans.

Trying to force Evans playing time by putting him at the three is a great way to screw up floor spacing and hinder team growth. These kids need to start gelling. Evans @ 3 would get in the way of that.

 

[♪alt13]

Trying to force Evans playing time by putting him at the three is a great way to screw up floor spacing and hinder team growth. These kids need to start gelling. Evans @ 3 would get in the way of that.

Not if it was in short spurts. I think our team has legs and we should take the opportunity to out run opponents. Be creative Ty, You have a lot and very little to work with.

 

[franklin]

Not if it was in short spurts. I think our team has legs and we should take the opportunity to out run opponents. Be creative Ty, You have a lot and very little to work with.

Agreed with all of that, especially the running. I wasn't happy when they were outrunning the Warriors in the 1st and Hayward got the ball in the backcourt and gave the slow it down signal. They can and should run teams out of the gym.

As far as Corbin getting creative goes, I guarantee he's playing Evans at the 3 during practices and knows what he's capable of. He might even be designing to use Evans like Sloan used Brewer. That requires a lot more primary pnr and a dominant point guard. I doubt Trey could make Evans better in many of those plays. Such as:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvvmpkDkSqw

 

[franklin]

In fact, didn't Corbin run one of those post entry pass and cut plays with Evans-Favors, where Favors threw either the oop or pass for a layup to Evans? Evans might have been the official 4 on the floor, but someone else was playing the 4 during that play.

 

[Revolution 9]

Having him and Holliday indicates to me that Marvin and Rush are quite a ways from being ready to go.

I hope so. While I do like Rush in theory I want to see what Burks, and the rest of the team can do.

Marvin just doesn't fit, or excite me in any way. He'd be good as a end of the bench guy, but hes not in our future plans.
Playing him really doesn't help our long term goals.

 

[♪alt13]

Agreed with all of that, especially the running. I wasn't happy when they were outrunning the Warriors in the 1st and Hayward got the ball in the backcourt and gave the slow it down signal. They can and should run teams out of the gym.

As far as Corbin getting creative goes, I guarantee he's playing Evans at the 3 during practices and knows what he's capable of. He might even be designing to use Evans like Sloan used Brewer. That requires a lot more primary pnr and a dominant point guard. I doubt Trey could make Evans better in many of those plays. Such as:

I agree with that but I see his primary role as getting down the court quickly on the Defensive rebound. I think your analysis of Evans is exactly why we should play him with hayward, kanter, and burks. Running the offense through them allows him to make weak side cuts. Anyone of these guys could provide evans with the assist when they get doubled up.

 

[colton]

In game one of the preseason? Absolutely.

Alternatively I would have considered letting Hayward play SF and starting Burks at the 2.

I honestly might have preferred the Jazz put a jersey on a sack of potatoes and run that out there rather than start Jefferson.

Go crazy. See what you got. One of the only things we know for certain is that Jefferson isn't in the long-term plans.

I don't know that for certain. Listening to a Lindsay interview about a week and a half ago, it's clear he has some history (in a good way) with Jefferson. I would not at all be surprised now if the Jazz keep Jefferson long term. Assuming he's at least adequate. (Cue line from Newsradio, for those who remember that episode.)

 

[sirkickyass]

Trying to force Evans playing time by putting him at the three is a great way to screw up floor spacing and hinder team growth. These kids need to start gelling. Evans @ 3 would get in the way of that.

Valid point in long stretches.

Like I said above, my primary concern isn't about position or exactly who plays instead of Jefferson. My concern is that Jefferson isn't playing. That's basically all I care about.

 

[sirkickyass]

I don't know that for certain. Listening to a Lindsay interview about a week and a half ago, it's clear he has some history (in a good way) with Jefferson. I would not at all be surprised now if the Jazz keep Jefferson long term. Assuming he's at least adequate. (Cue line from Newsradio, for those who remember that episode.)

This should terrify you. I don't think there's another player that has more Roger Braille potential on the team than Jefferson.

 

[fishonjazz]

Valid point in long stretches.

Like I said above, my primary concern isn't about position or exactly who plays instead of Jefferson. My concern is that Jefferson isn't playing. That's basically all I care about.

This should terrify you. I don't think there's another player that has more Roger Braille potential on the team than Jefferson.

These

 

[colton]

This should terrify you. I don't think there's another player that has more Roger Braille potential on the team than Jefferson.

In terms of his playing ability or the ability to tick off the entire fan base? Or something else?

 

[franklin]

Valid point in long stretches.

Like I said above, my primary concern isn't about position or exactly who plays instead of Jefferson. My concern is that Jefferson isn't playing. That's basically all I care about.

Fair enough. I should back pedal and say I was talking about the first 20 games or so. I agree with Corbin in leaning on the veteran crutch a bit until the Jazz come together as a group, especially Trey. The reason Jefferson is so important is because Corbin is using the side pnr to bailout broken plays (and I'm a broken record). Jefferson can do that pretty well, Evans cannot.

I don't know if Burks could do it better or worse that Jefferson but that's moot IMO since he's desperately needed in the 2nd unit. Jefferson can't carry a group and neither can Evans, Rush, or Marvin.

 

[sirkickyass]

Fair enough. I should back pedal and say I was talking about the first 20 games or so. I agree with Corbin in leaning on the veteran crutch a bit until the Jazz come together as a group, especially Trey. The reason Jefferson is so important is because Corbin is using the side pnr to bailout broken plays (and I'm a broken record). Jefferson can do that pretty well, Evans cannot.

I don't know if Burks could do it better or worse that Jefferson but that's moot IMO since he's desperately needed in the 2nd unit. Jefferson can't carry a group and neither can Evans, Rush, or Marvin.

Is this actually important or important to winning games in this particular season?

I'd be comfortable spending that time figuring out if Evans can develop a game as the roll man in the side PNR even if it costs us 3-4 wins this season.

 

[franklin]

Let's take it back in here.

I would love it if Evans could play SF. Maybe he should watch Kawhi... focus on D, know what your offense needs to be and DO NOT hesitate to execute it in the right conditions. Jeremy had an awesome 20' bucket the other night. Maybe he's found a set shot?

I don't think the AK comparisons are good because AK had excellent passing skills.

I'm talking about the role AK played in that 05-06 offense. There was a lot of standing around by a ball holder waiting for the team to develop a shot. This is seen in pretty evenly spread assists across the team. Boozer's 2.7 assists came largely the same way but from a different floor position (holding the ball at the top of the key a lot). Same for Memo's 2.4 assists.

Evans can't dribble so he would have to be hidden in any offense with him at the three. It's like Ronnie Brewer with the opposite problem. Brewer could dribble but not shoot, Evans can shoot but not dribble. The Brewer offense is much more similar to Corbin's offense, and I don't think Trey can facilitate enough yet to utilize Evans like Brewer was.

 

[franklin]

I'd like to see a game where Corbin camps Evans at the corner three with instructions to dart towards the basket anytime the ball is heading into the paint. If the other players can't get their shot off then they throw it up to the top of the backboard and see what happens. Favors-Kanter are big enough to clean up the mess if Evans can't go up and get it.

In fact, this should be the primary play.

 

[Stoked]

I'd like to see a game where Corbin camps Evans at the corner three with instructions to dart towards the basket anytime the ball is heading into the paint. If the other players can't get their shot off then they throw it up to the top of the backboard and see what happens. Favors-Kanter are big enough to clean up the mess if Evans can't go up and get it.

In fact, this should be the primary play.

You have osme very interesting ideas. I'd like to see them implemented or at least tried out this pre season.

 

[sirkickyass]

I'd like to see a game where Corbin camps Evans at the corner three with instructions to dart towards the basket anytime the ball is heading into the paint. If the other players can't get their shot off then they throw it up to the top of the backboard and see what happens. Favors-Kanter are big enough to clean up the mess if Evans can't go up and get it.

In fact, this should be the primary play.

One of the underrated aspects of Boozer's game is that he was an excellent interior passer. I wonder if our current lineup of bigs has enough skill to take advantage of a darting Evans in this manner.

 

[franklin]

Is this actually important or important to winning games in this particular season?

I'd be comfortable spending that time figuring out if Evans can develop a game as the roll man in the side PNR even if it costs us 3-4 wins this season.

I don't know. I'm worried about telling Kanter & Favors they aren't good enough and to take the season's lumps so the Jazz can draft Wugg. As much as I want to tank (for 3 straight years now), I just don't see this group losing enough games to make it worth frustrating the hell out of these two and Hayward. Blowing leads for 82 games has to take a toll.

Also, roll man out of the side pnr isn't his role as the 3 in the context I'm thinking of. He's the ball handler.

One of the underrated aspects of Boozer's game is that he was an excellent interior passer. I wonder if our current lineup of bigs has enough skill to take advantage of a darting Evans in this manner.

I was thinking more of the low right block and high pnr. Those Boozer plays out of the high block were money on his shooting and his passing. I don't think Kanter is there yet on shooting to make that work. He's good there shooting, but Boozer was top notch.