Well you kinda are. Truth as an absolute defence and all that.
The rise of dictators
- Thread starter str8line
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Well you kinda are. Truth as an absolute defence and all that.
DutchJazzer
Banned
actually everone has that capability! do not underestimate human nature in response to power. history has proven it
DutchJazzer
Banned
and people complain about my threads!
LogGrad98
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So basically marriage.
pretty much.
Red
Well-Known Member
The system of checks and balances built into having three branches of a federal government has checked the power of the Executive branch to this point, in some areas. The immigration ban that Trump wanted, for instance, has been stymied, to some degree, by the Judicial branch. The Legislative branch has stymied Trump's desire to ease up on sanctions against Russia. So those are two areas where Trump's power has been checked. If his power has been checked, then he does not wield absolute power, and cannot be said to be a dictator.
The existence of a Special Council examining whether the President obstructed justice is also proof that Trump does not wield the absolute power associated with a dictator. Otherwise, there would be no Special Council examining the President's campaign's actions during the 2016 campaign for the Presidency, and his actions since being elected, such as firing the director of the FBI.
Now, what happens if Trump fires Mueller? The Executive branch will offer justification for it, and the people will judge whether that justification is valid or not. And that judgement will likely be along partisan lines. It's likely the Executive branch will claim Mueller is exceeding his authority. The opposition will claim Trump is attempting to elevate himself above the law. This will lead to a constitutional crisis. Why? Because if the President is above the law, that alone is trending toward dictatorship. Above the law. Outside the law. It would still not be absolute power, since he would still be up for re-election in 2020. Fire the Special Council, and call off the 2020 elections to remain in power indefinetly, and then you're at least trending toward the type of absolute power we associate with dictatorship.
The man does seem to admire authoritarian rulers. I thought one of the more reprehensible moments in his Presidency was when he spoke to Duterte and told him he was doing a great job battling the drug problem in the Philippines. Since that has taken the form of thousands of extrajudicial murders, Trump was in effect congratulating Duterte for acting outside the law. Not good if one values the rule of law. Expressing admiration for dictatorial powers probably is a disturbing look for a President in the eyes of many Americans.
He has suggested the broadcast license of certain networks should be examined. Again, there are, in his words at least, shades of an admiration and willingness to trend toward authoritarian rule. Calling the press "the enemy of the people" undermines the role of the press as an independent watchdog in a democratic society and democratic system of government. It's not good, and it's a shameful stance to take. A President should not be working to undermine our democratic institutions. And that's the purpose of the Special Council's investigation. Because there is a suspicion that this President, or members of his campaign, undermined the institution of free elections by acting in concert with a foreign entity to tip an election toward one side.
The fact that that investigation is still ongoing is proof, I should think, that we're not in a dictatorship yet. Fire Mueller, however, and the whole problem of the head of the Executive branch being above and outside the law will rear its head, and we will indeed be in a constitutional crisis, as we will need to answer the question of just how much power we grant that Executive branch.
The other day, when he trashed America's intelligence agencies, and seemed to sympathize with Putin's position, even saying he thought Putin felt insulted(give me a break!!), he sounded like a traitor, and I called him one. It's not the look of an innocent man. But, I trust, and hope, that Mueller's investigation, will shed light on that guilt or innocence. As long as Mueller is allowed to proceed, we're not dealing with a President wielding absolute, dictatorial-level power.
The existence of a Special Council examining whether the President obstructed justice is also proof that Trump does not wield the absolute power associated with a dictator. Otherwise, there would be no Special Council examining the President's campaign's actions during the 2016 campaign for the Presidency, and his actions since being elected, such as firing the director of the FBI.
Now, what happens if Trump fires Mueller? The Executive branch will offer justification for it, and the people will judge whether that justification is valid or not. And that judgement will likely be along partisan lines. It's likely the Executive branch will claim Mueller is exceeding his authority. The opposition will claim Trump is attempting to elevate himself above the law. This will lead to a constitutional crisis. Why? Because if the President is above the law, that alone is trending toward dictatorship. Above the law. Outside the law. It would still not be absolute power, since he would still be up for re-election in 2020. Fire the Special Council, and call off the 2020 elections to remain in power indefinetly, and then you're at least trending toward the type of absolute power we associate with dictatorship.
The man does seem to admire authoritarian rulers. I thought one of the more reprehensible moments in his Presidency was when he spoke to Duterte and told him he was doing a great job battling the drug problem in the Philippines. Since that has taken the form of thousands of extrajudicial murders, Trump was in effect congratulating Duterte for acting outside the law. Not good if one values the rule of law. Expressing admiration for dictatorial powers probably is a disturbing look for a President in the eyes of many Americans.
He has suggested the broadcast license of certain networks should be examined. Again, there are, in his words at least, shades of an admiration and willingness to trend toward authoritarian rule. Calling the press "the enemy of the people" undermines the role of the press as an independent watchdog in a democratic society and democratic system of government. It's not good, and it's a shameful stance to take. A President should not be working to undermine our democratic institutions. And that's the purpose of the Special Council's investigation. Because there is a suspicion that this President, or members of his campaign, undermined the institution of free elections by acting in concert with a foreign entity to tip an election toward one side.
The fact that that investigation is still ongoing is proof, I should think, that we're not in a dictatorship yet. Fire Mueller, however, and the whole problem of the head of the Executive branch being above and outside the law will rear its head, and we will indeed be in a constitutional crisis, as we will need to answer the question of just how much power we grant that Executive branch.
The other day, when he trashed America's intelligence agencies, and seemed to sympathize with Putin's position, even saying he thought Putin felt insulted(give me a break!!), he sounded like a traitor, and I called him one. It's not the look of an innocent man. But, I trust, and hope, that Mueller's investigation, will shed light on that guilt or innocence. As long as Mueller is allowed to proceed, we're not dealing with a President wielding absolute, dictatorial-level power.
What a pile of tosh. Its not like whatever you choose matters anyway, I can't think of an election in recent memory that offered two candidates that were so unfit for office. Hillary should have run as a bloody Republican anyway she's as crooked as a boxer's nose and stands for absolutely nothing. Trump is a bad joke foisted on the world by the staggering contempt for thought and celebration of ignorance that dominates your society. Football stadiums full of people get murdered every year by guns but you can still buy them in K Mart. Hundreds of thousands of voters die needlessly because they haven't got access to health care when almost all other comparative societies have medicare. Homelessness, illegal wars, corporate welfare, a woman's right to choose, an endless war on your underclass, **** you people are thick, if you haven't worked out that your democracy is broken you will end up drinking the bloody Kool-Aid.
Red
Well-Known Member
Well, I kinda doubt you'll ever hear me, of all people, disagree with that. Lol. Jefferson and Madison both emphasized the need to have an educated electorate in order to have our democratic system avoid leaders like Trump. From my perspective, too few Americans were educated in the recognition of a demagogue utilizing fear and anger existent among a significant segment of the electorate, to ascend to power. And I'm well aware of the failings of my civilization anyway. If it were truly up to me, Columbus would have either stayed home or sailed over the edge. I'm not exactly an admirer of this tinsel level civilization, driven by rampaging consumerism, and elevating people who appeal to the baser instincts of people. Seems much closer to the decline and fall then the exceptionalism our uber patriots subscribe to. But, that's just my opinion. The question was whether Trump was a dictator. At least I think that was one of the questions. I addressed it with what I felt were relevant points. I probably should have quoted you in full, actually, since I pretty much agree with you....
Wall street runs your country and mine too. We are nothing but slaves in gilded cages. Trump, Clinton, Charlie Sheen who cares? Nothing will change in any meaningful way. Its depressing, possibly not as depressing as the performance im watching the jazz put in now but its close.
Trump has penis envy. Dic-tator envy. He wants to be like Putin so bad he can't help but fawn over him. He compliments Duterte on being a cold-blooded killer because he wishes he could be one too. He would love to be a mass murderer. He got a little taste of that blood with his response to the Puerto Rico humanitarian crisis. He is a constitutional crisis in the making, have no doubt.
DutchJazzer
Banned
ok you got me convinced trump is a dictator! good thing you guys have the 2nd amendment! now go defend your liberty against enemies foreign and domestic(dictators)
cant tell if he is serious or trolling
never met a dictator who is for deregulation!
lol, you're going off the rails. Breath and try again.