The Serial Podcast
- Thread starter Nightmare
- Start date
Whether he did it or not, the "evidence" used to convict him is staggering in the sense of how little they had. That jury must have been made up of complete and total morons. Almost like the jury used to convict a guy in Colorado named Tim Masters of a murder that he was later acquitted of, as in that case they didn't convict him with actual evidence.
The more I unfortunately follow this on Reddit the more I wonder if Adnan is actually guilty.
There are tons of questions, but there's really no alternative. Before Reddit I was thinking it must have been Jay, but really, why? Why would Jay kill her? His connection to her is very very small. He hasn't killed anyone since (obvious qualifier, that we know of). If it wasn't Jay then who? Like seriously, Hae got killed. someone did it for a reason (in their own mind). Who?
Reddit is killing me.
Nightmare
Active Member
Next episode I cannnnnnnnnot wait. It goes into "is adnan psychopath theory." I hope they interview Bilal, someone who knew Adnan when he was younger and said Adnan always stole from mosque and bragged about it. Sarah kroenig said in an interview that they have had people come up to her after the podcast started that will be part of the show. Basically either Adnan choked and killed someone and lied about it to his friends and family all these years or Jay did. Currently I think 60% chance Adnan did, 30 % chance Jay did, and 10% chance someone else did who we don't know (There was a serial killer who would strangle people to death in Baltimore area who got caught in 2004 for example. However, why would Jay testify about Adnan than?)
Nightmare
Active Member
Next episode I cannnnnnnnnot wait. It goes into "is adnan psychopath theory." I hope they interview Bilal, someone who knew Adnan when he was younger and said Adnan always stole from mosque and bragged about it. Sarah kroenig said in an interview that they have had people come up to her after the podcast started that will be part of the show. Basically either Adnan choked and killed someone and lied about it to his friends and family all these years or Jay did. Currently I think 60% chance Adnan did, 30 % chance Jay did, and 10% chance someone else did who we don't know (There was a serial killer who would strangle people to death in Baltimore area who got caught in 2004 for example. However, why would Jay testify about Adnan then?)
In one of the episodes that law professor lady said something along the line of the innocent is usually the least helpful person. I think this is crucial when looking at Adnan.
Think about this - Adnan had 6 whole weeks to come up with a story to at least free himself. But he didn't. Why not? If your *** is on the line for a life sentence why not come up with 'something' at least? The fact that he said that he couldn't remember EXACTLY what happened that day I can totally identify with. Thinking back 2 weeks ago on a particular day I haven't a clue what I was doing, let alone 6 whole weeks.
Well there's the theory that Adnan and Hae knew about Jay being unfaithful to Stephanie, and that Hae was bout to confront Jay about it just that day. Jay admitted to having involved in crime, etc, in the post, so he certainly has the means and the min set to commit such a murder and covering it up. He also has Jen in his back pocket, who he admitted himself is helped him.
Having someone threaten to tell your GF you cheated on them is a pretty weak motive. And Jay was not "involved in crime" he was a 20yo who smoked pot and bought enough extra to sell some to other people. That doesn't even count as being a drug dealer.
But Adnan's motive isn't very strong neither. He moved on and was seeing other girls. Moreover some of the jury admitted to thinking that Adnan as a muslim had religious motive as well which is really discriminatory imo.
Wondering if he's guilty is one thing. He might have did it.
The evidence for it is awful though. I'm not sure how any juror couldn't have had reasonable doubt. The fact there was no physical evidence whatsoever is a huge red flag in my mind.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
I agree that it's a very strange crime. It's an interesting crime we only have two good suspects/scenarios... and neither scenario is satisfying in motive or in physical evidence. There are three possible scenarios--although one seems to be extremely unlikely:
1. Jay is telling the whole truth, or some of the truth, an Adnon killed her (there's a lot of grey in this...as Jay could certainly be lying about his involvement...but the essential part of this theory is that Adnon was involved)
2. Jay did it and is framing Adnon
3. Someone else did it. And Jay's testimony was either coerced by the cops completely; or he's covering for them.
3 seems very unlikely, for reasons pretty obvious. But the two possible scenarios--either Adnan is lying or Jay is--don't make a whole lot of sense, either. Jay's story has a lot of holes in it--definitely places where he was covering for himself--but it still offers the "best" narrative for the murder, imo. I will say, as speculation has gone on, I have started to entertain the idea that Jay completely framed Adnan. When I try to work it out in my mind though I still find it baffling. So much had to have fallen in Jay's lap for him to make Adnan the perfect patsy.
1. Jay is telling the whole truth, or some of the truth, an Adnon killed her (there's a lot of grey in this...as Jay could certainly be lying about his involvement...but the essential part of this theory is that Adnon was involved)
2. Jay did it and is framing Adnon
3. Someone else did it. And Jay's testimony was either coerced by the cops completely; or he's covering for them.
3 seems very unlikely, for reasons pretty obvious. But the two possible scenarios--either Adnan is lying or Jay is--don't make a whole lot of sense, either. Jay's story has a lot of holes in it--definitely places where he was covering for himself--but it still offers the "best" narrative for the murder, imo. I will say, as speculation has gone on, I have started to entertain the idea that Jay completely framed Adnan. When I try to work it out in my mind though I still find it baffling. So much had to have fallen in Jay's lap for him to make Adnan the perfect patsy.
Nightmare
Active Member
Shamelessly copying paste off reddit.
Reasons Jay didn't do it.
No motive for Jay, there is a motive for Adnan (as her ex).
Nisha call.
Adnan's forgetfulness.
Adnan's failure to call/page Hae after her disappearance.
No obvious way for Jay to get Hae alone in her car, whereas with Adnan it is clear how he could manage it.
Jay voluntarily came to the police risking a lot given that the police might not believe him and that he was voluntarily implicating himself as an accomplice to murder.
Jay couldn't have expected Adnan wouldn't have an alibi if he was trying to frame Adnan and so was taking a huge risk trying to pin the murder on Adnan.
Jay told several people soon after the act that Adnan did it (long before the police interviewed him and put the idea to frame Adnan in his head like many people on this subreddit have been contending).
Cell towers reveal that Adnan's phone was in Linkin Park during the time even Adnan says he had his phone and during the time Hae's body was being buried in Linkin Park.
Jay seems genuinely shocked that Adnan wouldn't admit to the murder a decade later.
Jay told multiple people he was afraid of Adnan hurting Stephanie long before the cops were involved.
Adnan told one cop that he had asked Hae for a ride that day and then changed his story (other people say he did too) suggesting he was trying to get her alone in her car that day.
Jay did not know he would have Adnan's car and phone that day, and so the murder couldn't have been some planned attempt to frame Adnan in murdering Hae by borrowing Adnan's phone and car. Jay ended up with Adnan's phone and car on the spur of the moment at Adnan's urging on the day of the murder.
Jen called Adnan's phone at a time when Jay said they were burying Hae's body and cell towers reveal the phone was in Linkin Park. She says Adnan picked up.
Jay and Adnan hung out all day and Jay's story is that he and Adnan worked together on the murder that day; Adnan's story is a less believable account where he is with Jay throughout the day, but Jay managed to kill Adnan's ex-girlfriend for no reason while Adnan has just by chance "stepped out" for a short period of time and was not with Jay.
The 'I will kill' note.
The palm print on the map in Hae's car.
All the Muslim faith and honor besmirched stuff.
The pathetic comment.
The acting weird at not-her-real-name Cathy's.
The way Adnan talks and his speech patterns when SK interviews him.
Reasons Jay didn't do it.
No motive for Jay, there is a motive for Adnan (as her ex).
Nisha call.
Adnan's forgetfulness.
Adnan's failure to call/page Hae after her disappearance.
No obvious way for Jay to get Hae alone in her car, whereas with Adnan it is clear how he could manage it.
Jay voluntarily came to the police risking a lot given that the police might not believe him and that he was voluntarily implicating himself as an accomplice to murder.
Jay couldn't have expected Adnan wouldn't have an alibi if he was trying to frame Adnan and so was taking a huge risk trying to pin the murder on Adnan.
Jay told several people soon after the act that Adnan did it (long before the police interviewed him and put the idea to frame Adnan in his head like many people on this subreddit have been contending).
Cell towers reveal that Adnan's phone was in Linkin Park during the time even Adnan says he had his phone and during the time Hae's body was being buried in Linkin Park.
Jay seems genuinely shocked that Adnan wouldn't admit to the murder a decade later.
Jay told multiple people he was afraid of Adnan hurting Stephanie long before the cops were involved.
Adnan told one cop that he had asked Hae for a ride that day and then changed his story (other people say he did too) suggesting he was trying to get her alone in her car that day.
Jay did not know he would have Adnan's car and phone that day, and so the murder couldn't have been some planned attempt to frame Adnan in murdering Hae by borrowing Adnan's phone and car. Jay ended up with Adnan's phone and car on the spur of the moment at Adnan's urging on the day of the murder.
Jen called Adnan's phone at a time when Jay said they were burying Hae's body and cell towers reveal the phone was in Linkin Park. She says Adnan picked up.
Jay and Adnan hung out all day and Jay's story is that he and Adnan worked together on the murder that day; Adnan's story is a less believable account where he is with Jay throughout the day, but Jay managed to kill Adnan's ex-girlfriend for no reason while Adnan has just by chance "stepped out" for a short period of time and was not with Jay.
The 'I will kill' note.
The palm print on the map in Hae's car.
All the Muslim faith and honor besmirched stuff.
The pathetic comment.
The acting weird at not-her-real-name Cathy's.
The way Adnan talks and his speech patterns when SK interviews him.