The Stretch 4 Discussion Thread
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Handlogten's Heros
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Couple seconds and Tomic? Should get it done... this is so easy.
David Stern
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I think there's three realistic options here:
1 - Mirotic, if New Orleans decides they're going all-in on boogie and they want to shed some salary for our unguaranteed contracts
2 - Favors, on a 2 year, $50 million dollar deal with the second year an unguaranteed team option
3 - Jabari, if we can get a sign and trade for Favors or a team friendly deal
Based on DL's past experience, I bet we end up with Niko on the Jazz. I want them to take a chance on Jabari though
1 - Mirotic, if New Orleans decides they're going all-in on boogie and they want to shed some salary for our unguaranteed contracts
2 - Favors, on a 2 year, $50 million dollar deal with the second year an unguaranteed team option
3 - Jabari, if we can get a sign and trade for Favors or a team friendly deal
Based on DL's past experience, I bet we end up with Niko on the Jazz. I want them to take a chance on Jabari though
Handlogten's Heros
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I’ve been advocating for #2 if we decide to bring back Favs... 2/50 is too high though. I think 2/35 would be plenty and I would want that contract to potentially be an asset beyond just a big expiring contract.
Handlogten's Heros
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He’s good but is a FA next year... I think Portland extends him and trades Harkless, but maybe Aminu doesn’t agree and thinks he can get more.
Really good defender and spot up three has improved.
7StraightIsGreat
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Stranger things have happened. Let’s say the Knicks think that they’re players in FA if they can drop Noah and some other salary. There’s already rumors out there that NY might be willing to part with the #9 pick if somebody is willing to take Noah off their hands. If Utah got NY involved, and could offer San Antonio a package that begins with the #9 pick in the draft, they’ll probably at least listen to what we have to say.
And for the fans that blame Larry Miller for being a miser during the Stockton/Malone title contention years and sitting on his hands, let’s remember that there were a couple times where Larry did try to make a bigger move, only to be rebuffed by players refusing to report to Utah. There was the Derrick Harper deal where he famously stated: “You go play in Utah” and then the Seikly deal that fell apart after we sent Orlando 2 guys that made it as far as actually practicing with the team.
For the record, if Seikly reports to Utah, I think the Jazz win 1 or maybe even both match-ups vs Chicago and then we remember Larry as the owner that stepped up when the time was right, and swung a deal that landed the Jazz a couple rings.
7StraightIsGreat
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Jabari is gonna get some serious Jazzfanz mileage this offseason due to his Utah ties and the idea that should it work out, he’s more likely to stay in Utah. However, the more we look into him, the more obvious it becomes that he’s just not a fit here for several pretty important reasons.
If DL disagrees with me and ends up acquiring Jabari, I will cross my fingers and hope for the best, but man, that move would scare the **** outta me.
Jazz4ever
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You must really like you some Derrick Favors. 25m a year for 12 and 7...? In what alternate universe would that a good allocation of assets?
Handlogten's Heros
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It's a JJ Reddick special. Overpay for one year of production to preserve space and keep a dude happy and engaged... it goes a little too high, but 15-20M on a 1+1 deal with second year as a team option makes a lot of sense for both parties.
Handlogten's Heros
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It'd be similar to the Niko deal if we overpay slightly... say he outperforms or we need to go a different direction... it would be a trade asset as an expiring or as a short deal for a good player.
radiohegel
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I think that's an overpay. I would probably shoot for more in the 15-18 mil/per year. However, the universe is the one in which the Jazz want to maintain cap flexibility for 2019, and also have a potentially strong trade asset. A good player with a big (optionally) expiring contract can be a pretty enticing trade asset for teams looking to clear cap room, but not sacrifice a season to do so. But the biggest reason is that it allows the Jazz to have a substantial amount of space clearing next summer (same asset teams could be trying to trade for).
Keeping some continuity would probably be pretty beneficial to the continued development of our core, too.
It also would be a nice show of good faith with Favors, by giving him a nice contract for a year. I think the team is pretty heavily invested in their image as a franchise that cares for and prioritizes their players.
LoPo
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Lots of good chatter on here the last 18 hours or so. My 2 cents:
Favors - I know we all like him, but he is not the solution for a "stretch 4" and the dire need we have for another scorer. Our other 4 starters are solidified as we can rationalize their strengths and weaknesses. Rubio, Mitchell, Joe and Gobert are cornerstones to a contender as long as we can find a PF who provide the scoring punch we need that doesn't sacrifice our defensive team goals. Favors is an incredible asset for us, but we need more offense.
Jabari - getting him this summer would be a make or break decision. We would have to renounce Favors and probably Udoh and Jerekbo to get the money necessary to sign him. If he comes here and scores the ball at a high rate while not screwing us up on the defensive end, he could be our long term missing piece. If he becomes a distraction and overpaid poor fit due to defense, then it could be a major mistake.
Herzonja - I've been a big fan for a long time. We would get him for offense and his long term fit on the wing. By the time we get to the playoffs next year, we could start Herzonja, Crowder or O'Neale with two of them leading the second unit. If we can bring in Herzonja AND keep Favors (reasonable, short contract) and Thabo and Jerekbo and Exum, I think our offense could be set. If we bring him in but Favors leaves, I think we would be okay provided that Thabo is healthy for the playoffs next year. Herzonja is a lower risk higher reward option than Jabari. The ceiling is probably lower, but the price should be half.
Favors - I know we all like him, but he is not the solution for a "stretch 4" and the dire need we have for another scorer. Our other 4 starters are solidified as we can rationalize their strengths and weaknesses. Rubio, Mitchell, Joe and Gobert are cornerstones to a contender as long as we can find a PF who provide the scoring punch we need that doesn't sacrifice our defensive team goals. Favors is an incredible asset for us, but we need more offense.
Jabari - getting him this summer would be a make or break decision. We would have to renounce Favors and probably Udoh and Jerekbo to get the money necessary to sign him. If he comes here and scores the ball at a high rate while not screwing us up on the defensive end, he could be our long term missing piece. If he becomes a distraction and overpaid poor fit due to defense, then it could be a major mistake.
Herzonja - I've been a big fan for a long time. We would get him for offense and his long term fit on the wing. By the time we get to the playoffs next year, we could start Herzonja, Crowder or O'Neale with two of them leading the second unit. If we can bring in Herzonja AND keep Favors (reasonable, short contract) and Thabo and Jerekbo and Exum, I think our offense could be set. If we bring him in but Favors leaves, I think we would be okay provided that Thabo is healthy for the playoffs next year. Herzonja is a lower risk higher reward option than Jabari. The ceiling is probably lower, but the price should be half.
The thing about Hezonja is that he isnt good.
CALJAZZFAN
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Agreed. Regarding Parker, another issue is that he is injury prone. After missing Hill in the playoffs last year and Rubio this year, we need players who are generally healthy. There is always risk, but unless it's incredibly cheap, which it won't be, I would not gamble on someone with Parker's track record. Let Phoenix or some other poorly managed team sign him.
Favors doesn't get many touches or plays ran for him. When we have a stretch 4 in they don't get many shots. Jerebko was a solid stretch 4 in the regular season.
I don't think we need much scoring from our 4. I think a play maker 4 would be more important to Snyder. Jabari would fill both roles but I don't think we can get him or at least for a reasonable price. Otherwise that would be a no brainier to pick him up. I guess if it was a mutual sign and trade situation for favors maybe. Same goes with Gordon.
I'm almost positive favors will be back. I don't see another option that fits, is a reasonable price and is an upgrade.
I do think we need another dynamic wing. Wizards are the obvious team to trade with but they are in win now mode and we don't have much we are willing to give up. I would chase Kelly Oubre first .They don't want to pay him.
Burks will be traded, he is a great guy and a decent player but a bad fit.
Exum will be retained.
I don't think we need much scoring from our 4. I think a play maker 4 would be more important to Snyder. Jabari would fill both roles but I don't think we can get him or at least for a reasonable price. Otherwise that would be a no brainier to pick him up. I guess if it was a mutual sign and trade situation for favors maybe. Same goes with Gordon.
I'm almost positive favors will be back. I don't see another option that fits, is a reasonable price and is an upgrade.
I do think we need another dynamic wing. Wizards are the obvious team to trade with but they are in win now mode and we don't have much we are willing to give up. I would chase Kelly Oubre first .They don't want to pay him.
Burks will be traded, he is a great guy and a decent player but a bad fit.
Exum will be retained.
LoPo
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He's a 6'8" 220 lb SF who is only 23 years old. In 22mpg this year, he had 10ppg, 4rpg, over 1 steal per game while shooting 34% from 3. He has played for the incredibly awful Orlando franchise that also wasted the talents of Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo.
He could be the perfect addition to our team if he can continue to develop.
Harris and Oladipo looked good in Orlando. They didnt look as good, but they still looked good.
Archie Moses
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Anyone interested in Donatas Motiejunas?
Engorged On Unborn Gore
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Will he capitulate to Snyder/Mitchell/Gobert? Is his mentality closer to Burks' or Ingles'?
Those questions are more important to me than how he has performed in Orlando. Sure, Quinn could get more out of him than they did. But is he going to play with the decisiveness of Royce, or is he going to over-dribble his touches? I'm not sure he is a fit here.