The unrepentant Rudy Gobert support thread

Jazzinho

Active Member
I'm team Rudy. He has been the team soul for the past years.
The moment he leaves (and honestly sometimes I just think he should walk) this team is 7th-10th seed, even if we get Smart & scrubs in return.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I’ll co-sign on the Rudy Ride Or Die. I’ve always been a defense-first guy, and Rudy is the best defender in the history of the franchise.
No he's not. It's not even close. John Stockton is the best defender in team history. For so many seasons, he terrorized opposing PGs. He has more steals than any NBA player and it's not even close.

For a season or two, sure Gobert might have been more impactful. For a career, Stockton is by a mile.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Legends aren't made in the regular season. Until Rudy dominates in the playoffs, he's just a fan favorite.

We can already say that Donovan has dominated in the playoffs. More people should support him. He has the skills to take over when it matters. Without more development, Gobert is simply a specialist who can be gameplanned out of a series. Hopefully that changes this year...

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
No he's not. It's not even close. John Stockton is the best defender in team history. For so many seasons, he terrorized opposing PGs. He has more steals than any NBA player and it's not even close.

For a season or two, sure Gobert might have been more impactful. For a career, Stockton is by a mile.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
Agree to disagree

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

Thee Idiotic Minivan K

Well-Known Member
No he's not. It's not even close. John Stockton is the best defender in team history. For so many seasons, he terrorized opposing PGs. He has more steals than any NBA player and it's not even close.

For a season or two, sure Gobert might have been more impactful. For a career, Stockton is by a mile.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
My hell you’re an idiot!! And you could take one player to build a defense, ignoring all offense, who are you taking to make your defense as good as possible. Stockton or Gobert? If you for one second try to act all puffed up and say Stockton, then you shouldn’t be allowed to talk basketball, just try it I dare you!!
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
My hell you’re an idiot!! And you could take one player to build a defense, ignoring all offense, who are you taking to make your defense as good as possible. Stockton or Gobert? If you for one second try to act all puffed up and say Stockton, then you shouldn’t be allowed to talk basketball, just try it I dare you!!
Somebody said Gobert is the best defender in the history of the franchise. I just don't believe it. Until the guy dominates when it matters, he's not a better defender than John Stockton in the history of the franchise.

Using your measure, AK, Eaton and others could be considered better defensively than Stockton. However, basketball is a comprehensive sport. Stockton made his opponent work so hard on both ends of the court. His pressure on one end wore them out on the other and vice versa.

What John did defensively impacted the regular season and postseason for years. Gobert isn't there yet. Sure he has protected the rim well the last few years, but I'm not convinced come playoff time yet.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

Jazzinho

Active Member
Somebody said Gobert is the best defender in the history of the franchise. I just don't believe it. Until the guy dominates when it matters, he's not a better defender than John Stockton in the history of the franchise.

Using your measure, AK, Eaton and others could be considered better defensively than Stockton. However, basketball is a comprehensive sport. Stockton made his opponent work so hard on both ends of the court. His pressure on one end wore them out on the other and vice versa.

What John did defensively impacted the regular season and postseason for years. Gobert isn't there yet. Sure he has protected the rim well the last few years, but I'm not convinced come playoff time yet.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
If he has been gameplanned means that the oponent had changed, sometimes drastically, the way they played in order to offset his greatness. The fact that we've lost is mostly bc we lacked firepower and offensive variations than any other thing.
 

White Chocolate

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
The thing I don’t understand is the we should overpay Gobert because without him we’d suck. The goal is to win a championship not be the 4th-5th seed every year. Paying Rudy the supermax or anything close to that would significantly hinder this franchises ability to win a championship for years. It would have a lasting effect.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
The thing I don’t understand is the we should overpay Gobert because without him we’d suck. The goal is to win a championship not be the 4th-5th seed every year. Paying Rudy the supermax or anything close to that would significantly hinder this franchises ability to win a championship for years. It would have a lasting effect.
I don't think it takes the supermax personally. The counter argument is what are we doing with the money if we let Rudy walk. If the goal is championship or nothing then we should go full Process Sixers. Getting a Lebron, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Giannis, Kawhi, Steph, KD level superstar is the surest way to win a title... that type of talent exists in the lotto and it takes years to sift through duds to find it. Being the 4/5 seed and hoping to hit it big on a pick or acquisition that puts you over the top is fine. We aren't a big FA destination and you never know when you find the magical formula that lands one of those one-off titles like Dallas, Detroit, or Toronto had.
 

JimLes

Well-Known Member
The thing I don’t understand is the we should overpay Gobert because without him we’d suck. The goal is to win a championship not be the 4th-5th seed every year. Paying Rudy the supermax or anything close to that would significantly hinder this franchises ability to win a championship for years. It would have a lasting effect.
Again with the championship or bust. The odds of the Jazz winning a championship at any point over the next couple of decades are very small, for reasons I hope I don't need to explain to intelligent adults. I'd much rather be 4-5 seed every year than have a repeat of 2010-2017.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
So for a lot of reasons I think this playoff could be the Rudy Gober redemption story. His playoff "failings" have been greatly exaggerated...

"Steph turned him around!" He was coming off a knee injury and Steph turns a lot of guys around.

"Capela outplayed him!" Numbers wise probably right and Clint was very good, but his job is so much easier because Rudy had to decide between Harden and Capela and it was a very tough matchup for him...

Well this year we get a different matchup... Houston got rid of two of the guys that hurt us the most in CP3 and Capela. Now DM should have better looks at the rim and Rudy will have an opportunity to punish the Rockets on the glass.

I wish we had Bojan so I could get my hopes up for a real run, but I'm getting excited for Rudy to either turn the narrative around or for us to get some valuable data on Rudy "the regular season DPOY"
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
If he has been gameplanned means that the oponent had changed, sometimes drastically, the way they played in order to offset his greatness. The fact that we've lost is mostly bc we lacked firepower and offensive variations than any other thing.
Elite players dominate despite the opposing team's gameplan. Gobert battled pretty evenly with Adams and was often outplayed by Capella in both Houston series.

Gobert was not an elite player in any of the 3 playoff series the last 2 postseasons. So far, he has underachieved and has only been an above average player. Favors outplayed him often. Gobert has to step up this year.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Elite players dominate despite the opposing team's gameplan. Gobert battled pretty evenly with Adams and was often outplayed by Capella in both Houston series.

Gobert was not an elite player in any of the 3 playoff series the last 2 postseasons. So far, he has underachieved and has only been an above average player. Favors outplayed him often. Gobert has to step up this year.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
No, he wasnt outplayed by Capela and no Adams wasnt even with him. That is the narrative some people tried to say but there isnt much to back that up.

The series against OKC that we won Gobert 14 points, 11 boards. Adams had 10 point and 7 boards. That is not even including the advanced stats that heavily favor Gobert. Defensively Adams was negative in that series and Gobert was a huge positive.

The year against Houston (which was the worse of the two years against Houston) Gobert and Capela both put up about 11 points and 10 boards. So its pretty even there. But defensively Rudy had a lot more blocked shots and was doing a lot more on the defensive side. Gobert played elite defense enough for us to win if the team could hit a wide open shot, which we could not. Rudy was not the issue in that series. Rudy still had great advanced stats in that series. His block % was 9.8%. That is an incredible number. He completely deterred inside shots and that was allowing Harden to run straight at him. His offensive rating was 126 and defensive rating was 105. He was +21 in that series. Capela was +8. Also keep in mind Gobert was having to guard both Capela and Harden on many possessions and did a pretty decent job.

Gobert is not a big offensive player obviously but he is an elite defender and that has held true in the playoffs. You are trying to hold him to the standard of an offensive player. Does he need to do better? Yes, but other players hurt us a lot more in those series. Gobert cant make the team make wide open shots. Mitchell shot 32% from the field and 25% from 3. Over 1/2 of those 8.6 3s per game were wide open. No one could make a 3 to save their life, you cant win if you cant make open shots. Gobert cant hold a team to 0 points.
 
Top