The unrepentant Rudy Gobert support thread

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
That was obvious fools gold though since he wasn't being guarded and it was low volume

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We also had a lot of evidence that having a 4 that could shoot really turbocharged our lineups... Jae didn’t even shoot well. Never made the adjustment. I think we could live with Ricky’s 34% on three if you had Bojan at the 4.

I just think they idea that we needed a traditional ball dominant point guard was dumb. Hill was super effective in the role and he’s not a “playmaker” in a traditional sense. Ricky at least had size and decent defense (though some nights he’d get blown by too much). I had hoped Conley would be a superior version of Hill but it’s clear that ain’t his game.

Conleys best role with this team would be super sub... that’s a role filled by The JC now. We can fill pg with a combo of Ingles/DM/ and maybe some backup on a cheap deal. I’d move Mike if we can get something half way decent in part because it seems like we are reconfiguring things to make that work... rather than just doing things that make the team better.

Please Mike play like a man on fire in Orlando and make me eat these words.
 

kabenac

Well-Known Member
I feel like Rudy is loyal to this organization and is fine with staying. All the front office needs to do is surround him with a good team who gives effort and give him the ball from time to time and he's happy.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
There are a number of posts I wanted to respond to, but there have been some consistent themes, so I will just address this in bulk:

There's the argument of Rudy checking out and/or demanding touches. The reason I was originally going to bring up AK is because I could see this being used as a parallel, though I would vehemently reject this. When AK was complaining about touches, we had an elite offense and Deron, Boozer, and Okur and are significantly much better offensively than him. When he was complaining about touches, it was for his own personal gain because we were winning and what we needed from him were all the other things. We already had a good offense. When Rudy is complaining about touches, my own bias fundamentally believes that this is not simply about Rudy "getting his" but because our offense was ****. Like, despite all our talent, we were nearly historically bad in how inefficient we could be for very, very long stretches. When Rudy was complaining about touches, I see this more than something that was only hurting Rudy, but more that it was actually costing us as a team. We were missing Rudy right under the basket for the most efficient shot possible. The guy who broke the dunk record last year. We replaced that with a lot of floaters, contested shots, force-ups, and hero ball. This wasn't about Rudy wanting to score 20 per night (on the flip side, it was about everyone else wanting to score 20 per night!). AK was complaining about touches in an offense that was working. Gobert is complaining about not being fed the ball for easy baskets in an offense that is sucking serious *** and dropping many games in the most unacceptable fashions.

Then there's the effort part the past couple months. I'm not one to make excuses. But when we put this in context, we've been asking for, and have gotten accustomed to, ungodly defensive performances from Rudy. That's the bar. He wasn't consistently providing that the past couple months. That's obvious. But he wasn't terrible. He just wasn't ungodly. The most important thing is that, despite not giving the ungodly effort, he still gave significantly more effort defensively than anyone on the team! But this became magnified as he wasn't able to clean up everyone else's mess as efficiently as we had just come to expect. So when we say he didn't give effort, we're only comparing him against himself. Donovan started the season with really good defensive effort. For the rest of the season, his defensive effort was dog ****. We don't call him on this because we aren't accustomed to him performing that well, as we are for Rudy.
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
He short 3.5 attempts per game that year. And I think more like 4.0 attempts during that good stretch. I wouldn’t say that was low volume.
That's not low volume for a high minute ball dominant point guard back in the 80's and 90's. I agree with that.

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Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
There are a number of posts I wanted to respond to, but there have been some consistent themes, so I will just address this in bulk:

There's the argument of Rudy checking out and/or demanding touches. The reason I was originally going to bring up AK is because I could see this being used as a parallel, though I would vehemently reject this. When AK was complaining about touches, we had an elite offense and Deron, Boozer, and Okur and are significantly much better offensively than him. When he was complaining about touches, it was for his own personal gain because we were winning and what we needed from him were all the other things. We already had a good offense. When Rudy is complaining about touches, my own bias fundamentally believes that this is not simply about Rudy "getting his" but because our offense was ****. Like, despite all our talent, we were nearly historically bad in how inefficient we could be for very, very long stretches. When Rudy was complaining about touches, I see this more than something that was only hurting Rudy, but more that it was actually costing us as a team. We were missing Rudy right under the basket for the most efficient shot possible. The guy who broke the dunk record last year. We replaced that with a lot of floaters, contested shots, force-ups, and hero ball. This wasn't about Rudy wanting to score 20 per night (on the flip side, it was about everyone else wanting to score 20 per night!). AK was complaining about touches in an offense that was working. Gobert is complaining about not being fed the ball for easy baskets in an offense that is sucking serious *** and dropping many games in the most unacceptable fashions.

Then there's the effort part the past couple months. I'm not one to make excuses. But when we put this in context, we've been asking for, and have gotten accustomed to, ungodly defensive performances from Rudy. That's the bar. He wasn't consistently providing that the past couple months. That's obvious. But he wasn't terrible. He just wasn't ungodly. The most important thing is that, despite not giving the ungodly effort, he still gave significantly more effort defensively than anyone on the team! But this became magnified as he wasn't able to clean up everyone else's mess as efficiently as we had just come to expect. So when we say he didn't give effort, we're only comparing him against himself. Donovan started the season with really good defensive effort. For the rest of the season, his defensive effort was dog ****. We don't call him on this because we aren't accustomed to him performing that well, as we are for Rudy.
Couple things... our offense was actually good this year. Not bad. I think Rudy's complaining was one part about winning and one part about feeling like he wanted his due and you don't get that scoring 8/10 pts a game. I agree that he is under utilized on offense, but there were stints where he struggled to catch the ball as well.

The frustration is somewhere along the lines we stopped playing for one another... its a chicken and egg thing. The thing about Rudy in the past was it didn't ****ing matter... he was always going to give it everything all the time. That drive plus his amazing defensive talents makes him a no brainer max guy. Then you start to see the weak spot in the armor when he gets a little pouty.. and DM gets most of the attention... and you hear some diva things you never expected. Its that extra edge that takes Rudy from All-Star to Superstar. He has some limitations (stretch 5s can limit his effectiveness and drop big defenses can limit his roll opportunities) but I can look past those if he is the low maintenance Superstar. I worry the confluence of bigs being marginalized, his somewhat inconsistent effort, and big body that could age poorly (or not... Mutombo was effective for a very long time) that make me worry about a mega max. I'd give him a regular max but we need to recognize that many really good teams are able to dedicate a low amount of their cap to bigs and get by... gives them a resource allocation advantage... we can live with it if Rudy is a superstar.

DM had some solid defense early in the season... there were nights in the middle of the year he was atrocious. Getting beat ball watching multiple possessions in a row, not attempting a box out... just some really rookie ****. He needs to clean that up. He needs to feed Rudy a bit more too... even maybe a couple where he's not sure it will get through... just show him some love for doing all the dirty work.

My hope... DM and Rudy reconnect on and off the court in Orlando. It is a situation that could help or destroy a relationship. Once the contract stuff is sorted out this summer then they can play more for each other. I think putting DM as the smallest guy in the starting lineup helps his defense a lot. He will have a length advantage instead of disadvantage. Swap Conley for something more useful and have Ingles in the starting lineup to help Rudy (and others) get involved. I think part of the reason DM doesn't pass to Rudy is he just not good at it or doesn't see it well enough... don't think it is always a selfish thing.

Get both of these guys signed and then every piece we acquire going forward do so to fit/complement these two.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
It is kinda ****** that Rudy got sick and had to feel bad and apologize. We don't know what happened in the locker room... if it was just the microphone joke then that is some ********. If he jokingly breathed on DM's toothbrush or something then he deserved to get some ****.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Rubio was only here two years. His 40% from 3 from January 1 on and a playoff series win vs OKC in year one left a lot of hope that he was the point guard we needed and that he’d turned a corner from deep.

That wasn’t the case.
I never bought it.
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
No desire to pick sides in any debate over feeding Rudy offensively, but I wish there was some way to get statistics of how efficient our offense is when we're feeding Rudy. We have Rudy's TS% (which is great), but it might be possible that TOs increase when we're feeding him (not only his TOs, but also passing turnovers), and maybe there's an even higher cost for every marginal increase (since we are already presumably using most of the best opportunities for feeding him). I wish there was some way to compare these sorts of things to other efficiency outcomes from other types of plays.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
There are a number of posts I wanted to respond to, but there have been some consistent themes, so I will just address this in bulk:

There's the argument of Rudy checking out and/or demanding touches. The reason I was originally going to bring up AK is because I could see this being used as a parallel, though I would vehemently reject this. When AK was complaining about touches, we had an elite offense and Deron, Boozer, and Okur and are significantly much better offensively than him. When he was complaining about touches, it was for his own personal gain because we were winning and what we needed from him were all the other things. We already had a good offense. When Rudy is complaining about touches, my own bias fundamentally believes that this is not simply about Rudy "getting his" but because our offense was ****. Like, despite all our talent, we were nearly historically bad in how inefficient we could be for very, very long stretches. When Rudy was complaining about touches, I see this more than something that was only hurting Rudy, but more that it was actually costing us as a team. We were missing Rudy right under the basket for the most efficient shot possible. The guy who broke the dunk record last year. We replaced that with a lot of floaters, contested shots, force-ups, and hero ball. This wasn't about Rudy wanting to score 20 per night (on the flip side, it was about everyone else wanting to score 20 per night!). AK was complaining about touches in an offense that was working. Gobert is complaining about not being fed the ball for easy baskets in an offense that is sucking serious *** and dropping many games in the most unacceptable fashions.

Then there's the effort part the past couple months. I'm not one to make excuses. But when we put this in context, we've been asking for, and have gotten accustomed to, ungodly defensive performances from Rudy. That's the bar. He wasn't consistently providing that the past couple months. That's obvious. But he wasn't terrible. He just wasn't ungodly. The most important thing is that, despite not giving the ungodly effort, he still gave significantly more effort defensively than anyone on the team! But this became magnified as he wasn't able to clean up everyone else's mess as efficiently as we had just come to expect. So when we say he didn't give effort, we're only comparing him against himself. Donovan started the season with really good defensive effort. For the rest of the season, his defensive effort was dog ****. We don't call him on this because we aren't accustomed to him performing that well, as we are for Rudy.
Tattoo this on my face.
 
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